106. Sean Woodland + Tommy Marquez | Talking Elite Fitness

106. Sean Woodland + Tommy Marquez | Talking Elite Fitness

Hey Listeners! On the episode today Jason is sitting down the hosts of another podcast, Talking Elite Fitness’s Sean Woodland and Tommy Marquez. They discuss how even before were both let go from Crossfit HQ that they had always been looking for the right time to start a podcast as it would allow for more discussion when it comes to bigger topics. They’re really blown up since starting in January 2019, just coming up on a year since their first episode. They are on pace for 2.2 million verified downloads, that huge. They credit their success partly down to being Sports nerds. Great episode on what to take to provide top-level reporting and was missing in the summer last year due to the layoff.

Also, these guys are great people, who are working so hard. Make sure to check their podcast out – Talking Elite Fitness.

Time Stamps:

(9:46) How to stay ahead of the curve?
(14:15) How many doses Tommy spend on the data?
(18:59) Staying motivated to train?
(24:38) Crossfit moving forward
(36:57) Larger Games season – Cuts/ national champions, 
(46:10) Crossfit Mount Rushmore

Social Media: 

@Talkingelitefitness

@Swoodland53 

@Tommymarquez 

Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/talking-elite-fitness/id1449779475

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Sean Woodland + Tommy Marquez.mp4 transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

Sean Woodland + Tommy Marquez.mp4 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.

Jason Ackerman:
All right, well, here is Sean Woodland and Tommy Marquez talking elite fitness hosts and well-rounded entrepreneurs. You guys are part of many different things, but that's the big push right now, getting people to check you guys out, listening to the new podcast, talking about the games. How has that been going in? Twenty, twenty.

Sean Woodland:
I'll let Tommy start.

Tommy Marquezs:
Well, uh it's been going pretty good. The we we, our podcast started back in January. The week before a palooza started. And it was it was a project that I felt like was maybe a little bit a long time coming. It's something that we had talked about in, you know, behind the scenes when we're working at Crossfit,, like a podcast is a format I think we could both really have a good time doing. And it's something that allows us to both a. Cover the split dive into some of the more longer form discussion type stuff that we don't necessarily get to touch on an update show on a live broadcast where everything's so regimented down the second. So it really kind of started out of this as this kind of like fun kind of passion project, like let's go do this and just try and have some fun with it. And it very quickly got some legs where it's like, OK, this is this is a format that kind of fits us and we're having a good time. Let's maybe dedicate a little bit more time and resources and attention to it. And as the season kind of went along, it became very clear that the number of reliable like outlets for information in the in that space was very limited now and that people were very, I guess, hungry, information hungry. And they were really enjoying the longer format. Will, now that there wasn't as many outlets providing the information, they could take the time to dive into a 45 or 60 minute podcast and really dig into all the things that we are providing.

Tommy Marquezs:
I mean, we we set a goal about a million verified downloads for our first year. We hit that. And like I think we hit we started and we started it in January. We had 500000 in June, we hit a million in August and we just broke 1.5. So we're on pace for about two point two in our first year. So it's been the response has been overwhelming and pretty humbling, actually, and ugh mm kind of very honored that it's something that's resonated with the community so.

Sean Woodland:
Well, yeah. And just to piggyback off of that. Tommy and , I started this. I mean, it was kind of like we I know for me, I had to just force myself to do it because once every year when we were when we were both like go, I think we were both kind of looking at trying to figure what the hell we were going to do and how we were going to keep us going and if there was even going to be an opportunity to keep it going. So like Tommy said, we just said, all right, let's do a podcast. That's something that we can do. That's at a production level that that's acceptable to us because we didn't want to. Given what we had done with the update show, we didn't want to do something that was less than that. So we we did a little bit that was inside leaps in us on YouTube. And just because it's, you know, resources and manpower, it just wasn't sustainable. So we just figured we we would concentrate on the on the podcast. And yeah, like you said. It's it has taken off, I think, more than we would have anticipated. I thought we would have some success just given who we were. And like Tommy said, there really wasn't someone in the space providing the information. But it's become kind of a business. Actually had no tell. I think we had our budgets keep track of sponsors and stuff that we do and we have merchandising on a website we created. And it was a good problems to have. And I hope it keeps rolling again.

Jason Ackerman:
And you talked about whether or not you were going to launch right away. I had Heber Cannon from The Buttery Bro's last week. And, you know, we kind of talked about the same thing you guys went through. Crossfit,, for the most part, eliminates media. This wasn't in the back of your mind like, hey, as soon as we can't let go or as soon as this kind of ship sinks, we're gonna dive into our own thing. Do you really have to think about it? Because from an outside perspective, it makes total sense that you guys would just dive right into this.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, I think I think we did because we for the longest time as we were going through everything at HQ, there were things that were being we were told be worked on that might allow us to keep working, but with somebody else covering the sport. So I don't think Tommy and I ever really had that serious conversation until all that kind of fell through. And then at that point, I think it just became, you know, do you really want to jump back into it? I think we were sort of just were some anger there. I think that we had some just disappointment that we were trying to get over. And then. Yeah. Then after after all that kind of went away, the thought was, you know, why wouldn't we do this? I mean, there's still a sport that needs to be covered. We have a lot of experience doing it. And then we just found a way to get it going. And I'm super happy that people have responded the way they have.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah. And when kind of touching on what Sean said, I had kind of an interesting I guess and maybe Heber was touched on this as well. When we all got laid off, we got a lot of us were given separate dates. So some some people were given different final dates. Actually, my one year from getting let go was just this past Tuesday, October 15th. And so when that was our kind of our D day, I guess, if you will. And like I got myself, Heber Marson got let go like on the spot. And other people still were kept on on board till November, December, when certain projects were done. So I felt like there was this interesting kind of cooling off period that that Heber myself and Marson kind of had where we were.

Tommy Marquezs:
Still a little bit jilted from the news, but some of our friends and, you know, Sean and a couple of other close friends were still there and still finishing out. And so there was this kind of weird like no man's land for us. We're like, the full team wasn't let go yet. And so we were kind of like trying to formulate ideas and plans around what would be next without everyone being that we wanted to be involved. Being able to be involved. So I liken it kind of to like getting your heart broken, like in a relationship where, like, you know, you go through those cycles of grief and like you're like, oh, my God, I'm never doing that again. I'm like, I don't want to do that. And you're like, wait a second. I'm still a human being. I still feel I still feel like I want to love again. I'm ready. I'm ready to get get back into it. And that's pretty much how it was. And then by the time everyone was basically cut loose in December, the season was already starting.

Tommy Marquezs:
Other outlets had I was I was fortunate on my own. Atlas had reached out to me to to help out and stuff like that. And by that point, we had already kind of figured out that we wanted to do it. I don't know if heber ever touched on it, too.

Tommy Marquezs:
We had at the time we were we were all kind of like collectively and Marston's garage just kind of like sitting there, like stewing, trying to be creative.

Tommy Marquezs:
Listen, you know, it was like this like little box of creativity in it. And by the time we came out the other side, we're heading to Dubai. So the first event and then, you know, before, you know, we had the podcast and things started rolling

Jason Ackerman:
So it's a year later. To now look back on this as this was actually good for my career and good for me.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yes, but I don't think it's it's a simple just like. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm very fortunate to have some people that I I I look up to in a space. One of them in particular, who's been really good, I guess. I don't know. Sounding board for me. It is Matt O'Keefe.

Tommy Marquezs:
He's the president loud and live. And he said he reached out to me right away. News that came in. It may not feel like this yet, but this is going to be the best decision. That's like the best thing that's ever happened to career wise. These like just because, because you're going to have complete freedom for a while. And it's probably something you haven't had in a long time. And I while I agree with them, I also think that I don't think it's just like a finite like a binary, like yes or no. It's like something that I have to continue to work to continually be true. Like it's only going to be the best decision, best thing that's ever happened to me if I continually work to make it the best. It's not like, oh, it's the best thing that's ever happened to me now. Now I can just chill out, you know?

Tommy Marquezs:
You know, do whatever I want to do now. It's like, no, it's like this. It's not this like finite end point that I that I like work, too. And then, you know, ease off the gas pedal. So I'm I'm super happy and proud about what we've been able to do in the last year, especially because it's been done on our terms, which is super rewarding. But it's also like it makes me want to make sure that that continues to be the case.

Jason Ackerman:
Well,.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, I agree. So I just I agree 100 percent with that. It's it's sort of. Yes, but kind of thing. I mean, it's it's gone really well for us, but we certainly have to go. Keep working hard doing what we're doing. Keep trying to provide good content for the sport. And then I think also we have to trust and rely on people like Tommy mentioned that. O'Keefe People who are really trying to regrow this sport because a lot of what we do is gonna be dependent on the success that they have. So I think that we are at a good starting point right now. And I think that if things go well, this could work out extremely well for both of us.

Jason Ackerman:
What do you to do to stay ahead of the curve? I mean, other than being too good looking dudes with solid voices? You know what? Let's. What's your biggest advantage? You know, as someone that knows a lot about this sport and I can see it work out, I can kind of analyze you, I think we fall where when a good time is. What do you guys do to stay ahead of just any Joe and Susie from saying, hey, I'm going to go into this industry and I'm going to become, you know, the Joe Rogan of Crossfit,?

Sean Woodland:
Well, I mean, I think there's timing. I think what makes what we're doing works so well is that we I think we have definitely two different sets, sets of skills. I mean, Tommy is and I'll I'll say it is the best Crossfit, analyst in the world as far as his knowledge goes, as far as his ability to break down a workout. No, understand history of things, understand athlete, strengthen weaknesses, not only in Crossfit,, but also in weightlifting. He has an encyclopedic knowledge of of all that. For me, I think my experience comes more from the broadcast side, having been in television about other sports, NFL college football, you know, and see Double-A basketball. You know, I spent like 12 years of my career covering different sports. So I think that's my skill set paired with Tommy's skill set. We have been able to come up with something that allows us to put the information out there in an organized and clear way. And it's cool because it's I get it. I love team sports and the cool work. And it's demotes the team, too, because, you know, I have sort of my role and Tommy has his role. And then we both need to know the athletes and we both need to understand history. But I think we complement each other really well.

Sean Woodland:
And then I think what also sets us apart is this, you know, our history with some of the athletes, our history with some of these events and then our access that we have and the trust, I think that a lot of the athletes have with us, that if we reach out to them to do an interview, to get some information, they know that we're going to keep the things that they say not to say publicly. We're going to keep those to ourselves and that we're going to talk about the things that they say are OK. So we don't betray that trust.

Tommy Marquezs:
And the build off that a little bit. I think there's a couple of things that I'd like thought about this a lot. Two common threads, I think, that really make our dynamic work. One, Sean and I are both outside of Crossfit,. We're both really big sports fans. And that that is a culture and a mindset of not just sitting back and casually observing, but wanting to understand what's going on on the screen in front of us when we're watching our favorite teams or watching a sport. There's that kind of curiosity mixed with genuine interest. I mean, yesterday, Sean and I are texting. Well, in the last three weeks, particularly, we've been lamenting our football teams blowing up the wrong way. But on top of that, we're always like, you know, Sean's a huge hockey fan, like I'm a hockey fan, too. But, Sean, that's definitely his attitude. I'm a big basketball. We both like baseball. We both like constantly chewing up knowledge in that sports arena. And while the sports are different, the general foundation for like learning and acquiring knowledge and being able to translate that definitely has carry over. And it makes us like I used the terminology sports nerd all the time. If you want to, I feel like if you want to be relatively good at this, like you have to be. You have to love what you're doing and be a genuine sports nerd about it and and want to get that information not because it's your job, but because you enjoy it.

Tommy Marquezs:
And I think that on top of that, I mean, both of us now, I mean, in twenty nineteen we're probably bordering on twenty years of combined in the community between the two of us. And so we've had time not just to go through that like initial cycle, like all this Crossfit, thing is the best thing ever. You know, like we've gone through the craze, we've been like that had the honeymoon phase and we've come back from it and then we've, you know, rediscovered what it means to us to be involved in the community, what it what. Being a part of it means to us as well. So now we get to kind of meld those two together. So we have this long term understanding of how the community fits in our lives as well as, you know, this general passion for sports and sports media and knowledge and stuff like that to where we consume it on a regular basis. And I think that's just kind of blended together in this nice little mixture so far.

Jason Ackerman:
How much time do you spend every week on the data, Tommy?

Tommy Marquezs:
I will tell you, I put in hour number to it.

Jason Ackerman:
Something Like that. I mean, give us an idea of what I ahh about how much time do you have to spend every week to stay up to date, especially in season, especially in a sport where you don't know what the next mean Football? All right. We're playing on one hundred yard field. This is the rules. You don't know what twenty point three is going to be. And within a few minutes, you have to think, OK, who's going to do the best and and why?

Tommy Marquezs:
If so, in terms of like hard time spent looking at stuff like leaderboards, historical workouts, sounds funny, like athlete profiles on Instagram to see what people are doing. Just on that alone, maybe 30 to 40 hours a week. Like it's one of those things that's hard to quantify because I don't turn it off. It's that it really drives my fiancee nuts sometimes because she's always like, well, why are you looking at this? I'm like, well, like,.

Jason Ackerman:
It's my job.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah, it's my job. And it's like one of those things where, like, it's not like a 9 to 5, you know, it's like people it's almost like I went with this like round the clock news cycle.

Tommy Marquezs:
It's almost like I can always be looking at the leaderboard. I can always be checking to see if any athletes have posted scores that can always be looking at, you know, where people are in their off season training and programming and stuff like that. It could be reaching out to athletes. I'm also generally also generally writing stories a couple at a time per week. So it's one of those I would say it just in terms of pure studying. I would say probably 30 ish hours with at least.

Tommy Marquezs:
And that's that's really hard. That's like that's a tough number for me to put, too. But I do spend a lot of time just trying to like absorb knowledge and then, you know, turn that around into stories, articles, podcast, all that good stuff.

Jason Ackerman:
I think I think that's the day and age that we live in. No. Right. When you're an entrepreneur, like we were talking before the show about Thunder Bro and my help there, or even with best hour. It's nonstop. I was talking to my wife the other day and it's like, yeah, but if we want to take two hours in the day to go work out. We can do that where most people have a 9:00 to 5:00 and then eliminate by their schedule.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah.

Jason Ackerman:
If if you guys didn't broadcast for Crossfit,, what sport would you prefer?

Sean Woodland:
That's a good one either. I'd say football or hockey.

Jason Ackerman:
Professional?

Sean Woodland:
Yeah. Even you know what? Even even college. I just I just love. I'm a huge football fan. So even if we're just high school, I'd love doing that. College I've you know, I've covered it. I've never done, you know, play by play or anything for it. But I just love like I said, I'm just a I'm a sports nerd and I'm a huge football nerd. Love hockey as well. The problem, my two favorite sports, usually depending on which one is better in the respective leagues. But yeah, that that would be that would be mine because I just I can't even just remember as a kid just being fascinated with the game of football and love and the X's and O's and just the way that things would be drawn up and plays and different schemes. You know, it's goes back to that just being a sports nerd, were you not only are you trying to watch and enjoy what's going on on the screen, but as Tommy said, you went to a deeper understanding of it and that I would love to get in to that sport.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah, I agree. Football is is it's for me or football or basketball as it big basketball player I love. It's probably one of my favorite sport to play. But there's something about football that is and it sounds kind of weird. That's almost uniquely American above all other sports, whereas like, you know, it's like I mean, it's that's why outside of the United States, it's called American football. And it's it's a culture that I think that isn't replicated very many other places between both the foot of the professional and college ranks and others there are also very distinct in that regard. So I really like college football a lot. I like some of the historic rivalries and things like that. But, you know, I'm not that gets to be jacked up like like watching some, like, high tempo basketball. So it be it be kind of tough. But I think from covering from a sports perspective, the fact that there's more people on the field for NFL and there's more variables in the NFL and it isn't as fluid as the NBA when you got five people playing offense defense, I think the the ability to kind of dig in on the NFL side is a little bit greater. So I'd probably get that to.

Jason Ackerman:
So I've been involved in Crossfit, since 2006 on three affiliates work for the seminar team Long Resumé. It's challenging at times to stay motivated. You guys have been involved. Like you said, 20 years combined, 10 years each. Travel the world, spend 30 hours a week looking at it. How do you two stay motivated to train? I assume that's how we all get into it. Right. I can Crossfit, as a way to to train myself, train my clients. So you still have to love it yourself. Has it been harder for you? Being so invested in a sport, where has that made it even more fun for you?

Sean Woodland:
I don't for me being forty five approach quickly barreling towards forty six. The appeal of Crossfit, in the way I stay motivated is. I like to compete with myself. I'm not. I mean, I do like to compete, but I always like to go out and say, hey, can I do this better than I did it last time? And that that goes. That's the same thing with like I play a lot of video games. It's the same thing. I want to do this, you know this level better than I did it last time. I don't want to make the same mistakes that I did last time. And so it's for me, the motivation comes from let's see if I can be a little better today. And then the other part is, too, is that I look around the world in general and it's skewed a lot because I hang out with really fit people all the time like Tommy and, you know, the Buttery Bro's and those guys. And I am the least fit among those dudes. But when I go out in public and I'm walking around the local Costco or Target, I'm thinking, OK, I'm freaking Spartan warrior here. And I don't want to be. You know, I it's fitness is important to me. And I don't mean that from a sense of being able to go into the gym and snatch a certain amount of weight or do fran in a short amount of time.

Sean Woodland:
It's important to me that I'm able to just live a healthy life and enjoy things. I. I think back to my wife. So I took a quick trip down the sand and we went to the San Diego Zoo for a day and we went there, we showed up, went open and we left when it closed and walked the whole thing maybe like four or five times and they're just looking around that place. Very few people could do that. And mean there were people in their mobility scooters. There were people with canes. You know, my both my parents have trouble getting around and it's very limiting of them. I don't want to be that way. And it's so for me, it's just about a quality of life. And, yes, I want to be able to set Rp and improve my times, but I just want to be healthy. And I think about the alternative to that. And like, you know, I get out in the gym. So it's not necessarily about numbers or, you know, how much you lift. It's just about being able to to live life to its fullest and have a fitness that that you can use in everyday life so you can enjoy whatever it is that you're doing it for me.

Tommy Marquezs:
For me it is. There's a couple things that kind of play into it. I certainly struggle sometimes like the motivation to go train and and kind of keep up with my I guess my fitness, especially when I'm on the road traveling, you know, things start to pile up. And, you know, before you know it, it's been you worked out once that we can you start to feel a little bit more sluggish. But I am one and fiercely competitive, almost to a fault when it comes to physical activity. Like it doesn't matter if it's horse shoes, if it's spike ball, if it's wrecked like basketball, like if if like we line up across each other, like I want to win. And I know that usually takes me pushing myself very hard to do that. And and I just I I I relish the arena of competition. So that certainly helps because I always I always try to plan something competitive for me to like shoot forward, to keep as a goal thing, like kind of had that carrot dangled in front of me. But the other things like I'm I'm very fortunate that have had some in some life events that have allowed. That have given me continuous motivation, I guess. So I found Crossfit, while I was working mental health services as a part of a non-profit. So it was it was a foster adoption care agency and I was part of the mental health clinic that provided services for the kids coming in. That job was extremely heavy and very emotional and Crossfit, became my outlet from that. And I very quickly realized that the ability to separate myself from this and go work out in a in a intense environment like Crossfit, is a luxury.

Tommy Marquezs:
So it was something that consistently reminded myself why I was still on that. Other side of that is when I was twenty twenty. My one of my best friends from growing up died from type 2 diabetes from complications of it. So he didn't know it, that he had it. And it was something that went undiagnosed just because he was 20 years old. He was living the college lifestyle, relatively unhealthy though, unlike the rest of our other friends. He wasn't the one working on anything like that. So that was kind of a really harsh wake up call for me in terms of health and fitness in general. So that's something that I have a tattoo from that. And it's something that's kind of like a daily reminder. So you when I do struggle, it's kind of like, well, you know, my my, my buddy Ryan isn't here. So it's something that, again, another luxury that I have, I have the the mental faculties and the physical faculties to fix this myself. So, you know, snap out of it, I guess, you know. And, you know, go be better now.

Jason Ackerman:
I love it. That's a great Segway to. And I want to ask you guys, you're trying to put your slight biases aside now. You. You're clearly invested in the games. I saw Coach Glassman speak at the affiliate gathering recently, and he also spoke at the trainer summit last week. And it's very clear he's pushing towards Crossfit, health and that's why all the downsizing and all of that happened. What do you guys think that means from a box of perspective and for the long term success of the sport? You know, obviously we're all biased. We all love Crossfit,, you know. But do you agree with the direction of it or do you feel like and do you think it's going to benefit the boxes or do you feel like this was a fumble in the direction of our going?

Tommy Marquezs:
I dont disagree with a direction whatsoever. I honestly think that for the most part that's kind of what box owners for a long time like a lot of like the deeply invested box owners that 10 plus 10, 10 plus year affiliates have been doing for a long time. I generally think that even with the growth of the games and the prominence of the sport side of things, the day to day work of the affiliates is to health focus like the day to day of the affiliates. Like granted they may have gotten psyched up for the open and done all those other things every there in their programming for their gyms and just focusing on the general well-being of their affiliated population. So I don't think that necessarily should represent a huge change for some of these affiliates. I think it's more so what the messaging that comes from the top down that Crossfit, is providing.

Tommy Marquezs:
I I still I'm still kind of filtering through what that may be mean for the long term success of the sport, because in my opinion, they both can, you know, cohabitate together and be symbiotic to one another. But I just I don't know if this like health initiative necessarily represents this huge, like shift in focus at the affiliate level for people who are generally invested in the well-being of their community on a day by day, hour by hour basis.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, I don't and I've talked a lot about this with a lot of people. I don't disagree with the goal of trying to reach an underserved population or populations. I think that's a noble pursuit. There is not one person who is down from a games athlete down to just, you know, your 60 year old grandmother who's in the gym trying to just be healthier. No one would disagree with that. The problems that I have had are that it's just the messaging of it.

Sean Woodland:
It's that this you're trying to reach an underserved population. So let's just take people who are sitting at home who are like they coach says on on the couch, on the carbs, who have maybe some chronic disease, you know, might have some mobility issues and have no fitness whatsoever. How are you reaching them? And you've pulled back all your social media, essentially.

Sean Woodland:
The games are not on TV, so you could piggy back off of that. One of my favorite commercials and I can't remember the woman's name, but it was the elderly woman who was in the gym and she was saying how she couldn't tie her shoes and now she Kintyre shoes and they showed her kind of a woman sled.

Jason Ackerman:
Constsnce, from Crossfit South Brooklynn

Sean Woodland:
That's an amazing ad. And more and more people need to see that, because.

Sean Woodland:
I do agree that if all you do is watch the games and all you see that. Yeah, that could be somewhat intimidating for people in that message of a note. This is this is infinitely scalable and anybody can do it is very important. So it's not the fact that you want to focus on health. And like Tommy said, I think that's already being done inside the boxes. Is that that is now your focus and that is your message yet. I don't understand how you're getting that out. And if you say and I believe this wholeheartedly, I believe in Crossfit,. I believe that they have the most elegant solution to the world's most vexing problem. I agree 100 percent with that. But if that is the key, if you do believe that, why are you shouting that from the mountain tops instead of keeping it? I just don't feel like it's getting out to the people who you need to reach.

Sean Woodland:
Because let's face it, the people who are on the couch, on the carbs, who have had a lifestyle, our lifetime of unhealthy habits are not going to Crossfit, dot com. They probably don't know a whole lot of Crossfitters. And if they do, they probably aren't going to be just willing to just jump right off the couch and get into an affiliate. So I think there just needs to be a more concerted effort from the messaging side of things in order to reach those people. So a lot of times I feel like they're just shouting into the void and not reaching very many people who really need to be reached with this message. We all agree with it. It's just a matter of getting those people who don't know anything about fitness or working out. How are you reaching them?

Tommy Marquezs:
It seems and it seems weird to almost alienate the other side of the coin there, like if you're trying to focus on what you feel are the underserved populations. It feels weird. It seems like they're in some respects it's all they're doing. So at the cost of the people that have been served by Crossfit, for the last, you know, ten, fifteen years, the people that can potentially act as the best conduits of this to to this underserved population. And it's it's just one of those things where like, why wouldn't you work to serve the entirety of the population and help, you know, like if if I'd been doing it for ten years and I've been I've been through all those cycles with with the program, I'm still standing here as a as a fervent advocate for it. Why not utilize that as a firsthand experience for someone who is underserved and could would like to maybe get that message from someone that's directly in their community? It's kind of, you know, for lack of a better term, like you're almost kind of turning your back on all your footsoldiers, the people that gave you the option to be able to focus on this health initiative.

Tommy Marquezs:
In the first place. Right. So it's like end to echo what John said. I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting to serve these underserved populations. Like you said, the Constance commercial that ran in millions of households over and over on the during the Crossfit, gainst is one of my favorite one of my favorite commercials, along with the Grandma Betty with Christine Petree working with her grandma. And I mean that really. I can't remember the term, but there's almost like there's there's a medical term for like any time you get like a supplement, you take another supplement with it.

It almost boosts it. I can't remember the term, but I always felt like the games were like this boosting supplement for the health initiative when they were paired together proper. Right. Because you also get you get to see the full scope of what this program is capable of. Not just this is meant to serve others, this population. It's the idea of infinite scalability requires that you need the top end people to showcase the scalability from the get go. So it's it's one of those things where like like Sean said, I just think the message could be delivered a little bit better.

Jason Ackerman:
Yeah.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah. Sorry. Go, Jason

Jason Ackerman:
Well, I know and I'm very biased towards Crossfit, and I can understand where you guys are coming from. I think a lot of the messages that you're referring to are coming. I know that the keynote speech that he gave at the Philly gathering is going to be released soon. And I think a lot of the. Topics and then the things that you're bringing up here are valid, but it's going to be addressed in the coming future. But that being said, I agree. Right. We need Coach Glassman has always said it's trickled down, we need the mat and the tias is out there, tend to trickle down and get those in between people above the those with chronic disease. But I do think it's coming. And I think sometimes we are in Crossfitters is hard thing that we all love and we're also passionate about. And we feel like we have this voice, which we do. But at the same time, Coach Glassman is the one steering the ship. And we want to. We want to take over at times. We don't realize how challenging that could probably be. Sure.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, I'd agree with that. And I think the other thing I was going to say is that for whatever reason, I get the message and this may be just misinterpreting things, but it seems like you're either you're either a fan of the games and you and the elite side of things or you're a fan of the health stuff. You can't be on both sides. And that's I've talked to a lot of affiliate owners and people who go to affiliates who say, I love the games. I know I'm not a games athlete. I want to train like a games athlete. I love the open. And I used to love watching regionals and I love the games. But at the same time, I can get as much enjoyment out of that as I can. Watching the 55 year old come into my gym and get his first pull up, there's an equal amount of pleasure derived from both of those things. Why can't it be one and not the other? And that's just a question. We get a lot. Yeah.

Tommy Marquezs:
And it's it's just like it's it feels almost like the pendulum has swung so far in one direction in the past year that it's like what why aren't we actively cultivating figuring out a system that can support both of these in a way that can maybe reach a greater audience than any just one of these pursuits singularly can do? And what would I worry about? And like you mentioned, Jason, that like the message, the messages are coming with keynote speech speeches and stuff like that. I have no doubt I have no doubt that the messages are going to be coming over time as this this path gets fleshed out. But the way that they started off on this path, I'm worried about how many people have turned turn to their, you know, turned away from it and, you know, kind of closed off to. How many people have left the room as a result? How they've gotten off on this path. I mean, if if they were, you know, two million people before this, all these changes started that we're willing to listen to that speech. And this changes happen with, you know, the communication or lack thereof. And half of those people walked away. Is that message getting out as effectively as it is it could have been before? You know, and it's tough. And it's that's that's a hard thing to quantify, I guess. But these are all concerns that come from us being like, oh, man, like this message is so good. And it could be getting out to so many more people. And we can be so much more effective about doing this that like it's not coming from a place of like we just want to criticize or anything like that that we want.

Jason Ackerman:
And I don't think anybody should take that from me guys at all. And certainly not what you're preaching,.

Sean Woodland:
Because I don't like we don't have the answers and we want to see this thing succeed on both sides. I want to see unhealthy people get healthy and I want to see the games and the game season continue to thrive. And I spoke with one affiliate owner and we were talking and she was she had two points to make about the the the obese and the underserved community and that and the people who have. No fitness experience whatsoever coming. Her gym. She said, first off, I want to help those people. I really do. But a lot of times they need more than just exercise. They need. There are some for lack of a better term mental issues there that maybe that they have to deal with that affects their relationship with food. And I'm not equipped to handle that. I can help them, you know, get get moving and get a little bit healthier. But she goes, I have a little bit of concern with that, too. The other thing that I've had brought up to me is that when people say, OK, we're focusing, I'm a gym owner and this is now the focus. Well, what percentage of my business is that really? How many of those people do I have in my gym? And if we are now focusing on that more, how many more am I getting and what is the juice kind of worth the squeeze there as far as the message goes in it and the emphasis we're putting behind it? And I think that's a valid question. I don't have an answer for that. But I think that's what gym owners are thinking out there. They just they just want and in time we mentioned this to clear communication as to what the goal is. And I think a lot of times questions get asked and then they don't really get answered.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, what one big change this year was clearly the opening up of the Games to the top winners in the country's. How hard was that for you guys to follow? And were you at all surprised? So for me, for example, I was judging that first event, the first cut, and I didn't follow a lot of those athletes coming in and I expected them to hang a little bit more. I was like, hey, these are the best people in India. They should be pretty good. You know, and I judge that guy. And he didn't get past the road clubs. I didn't make it to the to the snatch bar. Were you guys expecting that? And if so, how much harder did that make your jobs this past year? Preparing for one hundred and fifty people you never heard of.

Tommy Marquezs:
This is this is a kind of a tough question for me personally just because. I did expect that. And I like a lot of these athletes to just not even be on the same like playing field respect, like level wises as some of the top athletes. And that was something that was. It was it was kind of bittersweet for me, right. Because we're at the games, right. And I don't want to necessarily have to be before we even come in. I don't wanna be counting athletes out. You know it. One of the issues that I had is I I was hoping that there would be some sort of threshold for the national champions like the top. You know, 50, your top 100 national champions on a worldwide leader get to go. So there's this clear line of and almost like this benchmark for people to shoot for that will in turn help, you know, encourage improvement across the board and give someone give some of these national champions in developing countries a goal to shoot for.

Tommy Marquezs:
But when that wasn't the case and that's not the case this year, you see you go down the national champion leaderboard and suddenly, like I'm looking at athletes, 50, 60, maybe 70 of these athletes that are going to be at the games on each division that like and no disrespect to them that like I'm more fit than on the world wide leader board meeting.

Jason Ackerman:
You are beating Justin, say pretty fit. Tommy.

Tommy Marquezs:
True do. But I. But I have and I have no business being on the on the floor of the Crossfit, games, at least from the standpoint that this is like the fittest on honor. Now, I understand that the increased desire to have global participation from the bottom levels all the way up to the top. But what it did, I think particularly last year, is for some of the like the debate about heats of 50, I think the only reason that first heat was even watchable was because of Ben Smith. You know, because he was one of the unseeded athletes who was in the first heat.

Tommy Marquezs:
Beyond that, I don't think I think it felt almost like. It almost felt like the freshman watching the freshmen and J.V. teams of a high school team. It's like, yeah, we're encouraging it because we know somebody on the team there. But this isn't the show. We're just waiting. We're just here waiting for the varsity team to show up. And like the best athletes to go out. And and I think that's a. I don't blame the athletes for showing up and wanting to do that one to represent the country. That's fantastic. But I also don't want to. I also feel like it almost did a disservice to them because, like, you know, I mean, I didn't consider any of them legitimate like legitimate contenders to actually do something from a competitive standpoint. So for me, I wasn't really paying attention to them that much. I was watching Ben Smith and then I was preparing my notes for the other events and then the event that someone did show up and do really well then. Okay. And I'll turn my attention to it. But you don't want ever have to do that. And, you know. So hopefully this is something that was just a a one or two off three years down the line. But I mean, that's at least how it kind of it was. You're one.

Tommy Marquezs:
Are you accidentally, though, making a case for cuts?

Sean Woodland:
No, that is the case for cut. Well, I think the the the. I mean, and what you're going gonna keep with this national champion format. So if you're stick, if you're sticking with your leg with that format, then, yes, you absolutely are making the case for.

Jason Ackerman:
I mean, the later cuts. I meant the later cuts.

Sean Woodland:
The later cuts also like down to 20 or and tne?

Jason Ackerman:
Simply, you know, I've judged the last few years. And when you judge for heats in a row of females or males, you see the stands start to fill up towards at last or two. Now, granted those heats to, you know, backing what Tommy said are full of very fit human beings, but clearly a level below the top. So people kind of lost their mind this year over the cuts. But in reality, were we just getting to varsity?

Sean Woodland:
I think you. Yes, I think so. I agree with what you're saying as far as when you had, you know, 40 athletes in the field, you could look at those first two heats and you say you had 40 to 10 and you could say these people are incredibly fit. They are in the they are the elite of late 0 0 1. They are not the very tip of the spear.

Jason Ackerman:
And you might see a I can't think you guys would know better, but someone that just having a bad day. Josh Bridges might have been on the third or fourth heat, even though he's a fan favorite. He was doing poorly in quotes at the Crossfit, Games, which is still better than the rest of the world.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, I think so. I think there is a case to be made absolutely for saying that as we get later in the competition that you only need, you don't need 40. And I'm willing to listen to that argument. Absolutely.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah same.

Sean Woodland:
I think, though and I'm not against cuts. I just think that from a fan's standpoint and a competition standpoint, I think it would have been better. If you had kept it at 20. Because then I think you still have people who are in that. So you'd have two heat.

Sean Woodland:
You'd have people who are in that first heat who can who have the goal of working themselves into the final heat and who can also affect the competition. And you make it then a more complete test with a field of 20. And I don't look, I'm not saying that the cuts took away from the enjoyment of the competition. That was a fantastic competition in 2019. It was fun to watch, had some really great moments that are iconic games, moments that we will talk about for a long time. But I think that people weren't against the cuts. I think people were against it how far they went.

Sean Woodland:
And if you're so if you're still married to getting down to 10, maybe you wait until Sunday or the final event. So fans and athletes can get their full experience because there were people and you mentioned Jason, Josh Bridges. People love watching Josh Bridges just compete. They know he's not going to win the games, but they love watching him compete. People want to see Sarah Cigna's daughter compete. They want to see Annie thoros daughter. They want to see Brent POCHOWSKI. They want to see Pat valnerr.

Sean Woodland:
If you kept it at 20 odds of those people getting in to that final that final pack are are pretty good. I just thought, you know, I'm not against cuts. I just think 10 was a little getting down to 10 was kind of just was a little too far. And I think if you back it off to 20, I think you're right where you need to be.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, I think that's what's so cool about Crossfit,. I get frustrated when people lose their minds because it changes every year. It's like you're upset we went cuts to 10. Maybe Dave Casto, maybe coach classman realized that was bad. Maybe they loved it. But we will end now. So there's no sense in getting mad about it, which which sanctionable h looking most forward to being at.

Tommy Marquezs:
That's tough.

Jason Ackerman:
I was very fortunate without biasing, I know you got to go. Dillon, a bias.

Tommy Marquezs:
I'm actually really excited for this first one. It's coming up to 50, 150 in Ireland. It's. So I'll be I'll be there covering the event with Morning Chalk Up.

Tommy Marquezs:
It's also looking like maybe we're going to have sean and maybe that's going to happen here. It's not going to come too. And we're going to have a presence there with our podcast as well as like, you know, the slinks emerge. And, you know, you know, kiss hands and safe babies. But but yeah. So I'm really excited for that one because I've had a chance to sit down and talk with Jamie. And during the organizers of that and I always like to talk to sanction directors face to face and really get to see the passion and how much they're invested in their particular event events. And the felting 150 is one that's been a very important event to the Irish community so much that I think every single Irish affiliate shows up to that event in some capacity every year. And so being the one that's going to kick off the season, I think we're going to get to see like just a really good time. I just think they're going to have a blast. And there's a lot of big name athletes going and it's. It's the first of 28, so I think the anticipation and the hype will be almost kind of got a fever pitch in that one. I've never been to Ireland and I hear it's a good time.

Jason Ackerman:
So I think that is more that has more to do with it. You want some Guinness, you want some sharp shots out there. Last last question I want to ask you guys, I've asked this before, but I've kind of held off and I think you guys would have a better insight than a lot of people. Each of your opinions, the Crossfit,, Mount Rushmore.

Sean Woodland:
Ok. OK. We've got to put Froning and Frasier up there. Those are two men.

Jason Ackerman:
Ok. Well, let me dive deeper into their well for a second.

Sean Woodland:
Ok.

Jason Ackerman:
Who is the best ever, the best ever? Is it Froning with Frazier? I think you have to pick one of those two.

Sean Woodland:
OK. If I had the pick, I've got I have to go with Fraser because.

Jason Ackerman:
I couldn't possibly throw into that mix Sean?

Sean Woodland:
As far as the best. You're talking male and female.

Jason Ackerman:
Yes. Even females, which I highly respect. I mean, they're all fitter and stronger than I am.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah. OK,. So let's put the four years in. I mean,. I think Tia it to he is certainly making a case. I think one more year and you'd have to throw into them.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah. I think that she is already probably the greatest female female. Given what she's done, I think the greatest of all time. And we actually did. We talked to that we have a Ryan friend, is a friend of our show Talking Fitness, came on and did something super interesting on the reality of the comparison between Richard and Matt. If you just look at the numbers, my SO. My perception is and this nesse not necessarily is reality, but my perception is that Matt Fraiser is beating better competition by more.

Jason Ackerman:
I agree with you. I don't need you to go into that. Everybody, if you're listening and interest, then head over to their podcast. Listen to it over there. If you guys have already discussed it.

Sean Woodland:
Yeah, but those. So I put Richard Matt. And then I'd probably go. I mean, Tia has got to be out there. Yeah, probably. Annie, Thordaughter?

Jason Ackerman:
I think that's fair. No. Interesting. You're choosing all athletes, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Sean Woodland:
That's just my board. The world I live in.

Jason Ackerman:
Yeah, we're a lot of people. You know, I always find it amusing when someone doesn't put Coach Glassman on there. Not that it's right or wrong is subjective, but I just want to hear my bias. Tommy a little bit.

Tommy Marquezs:
Well, it's easiest. That's OK. I mean, the question is the greatest Crossfit,. Right.

Jason Ackerman:
I think it's just the Mount Rushmore of Crossfit,. Right. There's been great leaders in this country, but only four of them are represented on Mount Rushmore. You can argue for Kennedy or whoever you want, but you don't image Crossfit,.

Tommy Marquezs:
Well, I. So first up, the talk about the greatest of all time. I think another interesting debate is I think Matt Frazier is the greatest individual games athlete of all time. And I think Rich Froning is the greatest Crossfit, Games athlete. That's a given what you've given, what he's done, both on the individual and team side as well. So it's kind of like because Matt's only ever compete as individual. Right. So I think he's the greatest individual just because of the things you already said.

Jason Ackerman:
So let me, I interrupted Sean earlier. Let me interrupt you one more year. Do you think Rich says, Hey, Matt, join the mayhem team, get your five, take your five wins? Cool. You win that. Now join me and let's let's wreak havoc on the division for the rest of our lives.

Tommy Marquezs:
I don't know. You know what? I almost hesitate to say no, because I just think, like, would almost be too easy.

Jason Ackerman:
It would be I mean, it would be like an unfair advantage. And I'm sure they would. You know, Tia is going to come. They all live there, you know, train together, Magine, Frazier, Froning, T-A and maybe Tasia or whoever else they keep on their team. That's crazy.

Tommy Marquezs:
What would it would? Yeah. I don't know. Look, I just I feel like I feel like I feel like Matt would want to maybe. I can see it for some reason the number 7 stands out in my mind, like I feel like Matt could. Matthew went 7 and just put himself in another stratosphere. And I think that like that would be a really good number to go out on. And then like, he would just, you know, I feel like Max kind of guy that would would finish and then just be like, you know, I'm good. I want my seven. You know, I'm going to I'm going to walk away from the sport clean on top. And, you know, I'm going to enjoy my time with Sammy and not all that good stuff I do.

Jason Ackerman:
So I didn't want to get into all this. But my question becomes, at what point do you tarnish your legacy if you lose him? So he if he I think he needs to come back and win the fans. Just to end the conversation about him and Froning. But then at what point if he comes back for a sixth and loses, does it then tarnish it?

Sean Woodland:
I don't think if you win five, I don't think it's going to tarnish it if he finishes. Second point one year. It's just natural. Matt is going to be. He's going to get older. He's not going to be. I think what would would tarnish this is when you hang on for too long.

Jason Ackerman:
Right. It's like the chocolate dalles or it's BGA.

Sean Woodland:
If Michel Jordan try to come back and play for the Wizards right now.

Jason Ackerman:
Or even when he did.

Sean Woodland:
Right. You're just like, no, this is not the Michael I want to remember. I want to rember Michael with the bulls and winning all those championships and doing his thing. I think if it let's say, you know, Matt would win. Let's say he went six and then he decides like, no, we keep going, that he said as a second. And then he finishes fifth and then he finishes 10s and then he's down in the 20s. And you're like, OK. Now, at that point, you're thinking, OK, maybe you should you should step away.

Sean Woodland:
But I think if you were to, he would win seven. And then it's your second again sometime. I don't think tarnishes his legacy whatsoever.

Jason Ackerman:
But let me. Just because you guys get this straight up analyzing data questions, and I still want to hear, Tom, is Mount Rushmore, but this is just a completely strange question. At what age can Matt Frazier's still make it to the Games, even though he's not winning? How many years could he just continue to show up? But not win. I mean, whether it's whether it's earlier, this is easy, third, right, I'm saying but is fit enough that you look at him like, hey, this dude, remember when Bill grumbler used to make the games?

Sean Woodland:
Oh, yeah.

Jason Ackerman:
People don't remember that. It's too long ago. But this dude was like forty five and he at one point said I'll never do Marsters because it's almost like embarrassing even though. Yeah. We all know it's not embarrassing. At one point Ken Frazier keep making the games even if he's not going to win.

Tommy Marquezs:
I think Fraiser has probably the best. Work life balance between Crossfit, and his time off. I think he is or situated his life in a way that like makes what he does sustainable better than almost any other athlete. I would not be surprised. Damn, I could see him qualifying. Thirty seven, thirty eight. That's awesome, another nine years. But that's that's without. That's assuming that the game as Crossfit, hasn't made that next leap for that. I feel like we've kind of been on the precipice for a while. Like it's like what I like like the the difference between like the 2010 to 2012 games versus like 2013 on when that next level of athlete showed up.

Tommy Marquezs:
I just I just think he's not like you think about what it takes to be. Forty it's at the game's 50th at the Games. Like that was Matt Fraser five years ago. Right. So, you know, like. So I think, like, you give him another six, seven years of being at least three of being the best in the world, maybe four. And you give him another couple of years being a podium or top ten contender. And then you're like, you know, he's just so good at everything. And he is he moves really well. He moves in a really efficient manner, which is I think is huge for longevity. Why can't he make the games at 38?

Jason Ackerman:
You know, it's just a unique sport where you don't see the guys that are getting knocked down three fights in a row and tarnishing their legacy cause they're just not making it to that level. I mean, Bridges is a great example or some of those guys that haven't made the cuts and come back, go ahead and finish your Mount Rushmore. Tommy Frazier and Froning.

Tommy Marquezs:
Can I have a guy's Mount Rushmore of girls and life? Sure. You can do that. So I think I'm going to stick more athletes right now just because it's it's fun for me. I go running Fraser Spiller and Ben Smith. I like that.

Jason Ackerman:
I think that's that's a good thing.

Tommy Marquezs:
I think. I think Spiller was a he was kind of like what I call paradigm shifter. You know, he was like almost like jujitsu, like the idea of our own jujitsu was being able to give a smaller guy an advantage against a bigger opponent. And that's what speeder almost like the Crossfit, like ethos of like fitness, regardless of size or weight, you know, and we can build you into this machine that can that can basically be fit for anything no matter what.

Tommy Marquezs:
And I think he was he was like the people's champ, you know. And I think in a funny face, crazy for obvious reasons. And then Ben Smith, I think it goes a long way to be the Crossfit, Iron Man, to be the Lou Gehrig or the Cal Ripken junior of your sport.

Tommy Marquezs:
On the women's side, I think it's any I think it's any TIA. Catchin. Brigs. Maybe brigs, it's time to get a really good one because I almost feel like I like to have like a legacy athlete in there.

Tommy Marquezs:
So in a couple years ago, it was probably Becca avoid making it for so long and being one of the few people to qualify as a masters athlete. She's been on the podium all all those years. But I also like the idea of having someone like a like an anti any soccer motto in there as someone who, like I said, is a paradigm shift or so like she was one of the original max-d girls that really kind of reframed what people saw as like fitness capabilities for women in the general population. And then to do that and then suddenly show up to the games.

Tommy Marquezs:
You know, as a mom, you know, you know, heading towards what would have been she would have been a master back then with the new New Age divisions and then finishing in the top 10, getting the spirit of the games and really showcasing the longevity of fitness that you can build in it as an affiliate owner to someone that's been around since the beginning. So.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, I think your Mount Rushmore is both express your expertise in the sports because you probably threw some names out there, especially Tommys list of people that are turning. And now they're like Spillar who any who. So it's it's cool to hear some of those old school names that were the ones. I mean, I remember watching Nasty Girls Anani and meeting Speel outfielder level twos together in 2008. So, you know, it's cool. They just hear those names still being brought up and it's gonna be fun to see in 10, 20, 30 years the names that we still talk about. And I appreciate you guys being on here. Any any last minute thoughts on the season that you wanted to share? I'm sure you do that every week. Todd talking really.

Sean Woodland:
Excited about it. It's going be great. I mean, I think what's cool about this year is that, you know, unfortunately, last year. You had all the changes and then you had a schedule that was sort of out of whack. So you had sanctioned events and you had the open, then you had more sanctioned events. And I think that added a layer of confusion that was already on top of the existing layer of confusion with all the changes. I think this year it's much more clean. So we have to go into the open right now. Then we'll have sanctioned events and then we'll have the game. So I think it'll be much more easy to follow. You won't have to deal with much of the. Well, this invite gets passed out of this person retroactively because of what happened with the open. It'll be much cleaner this year. And, you know, I think that I'm really looking forward to seeing what the evolution of the sanctioned events are there. Or what the science of what the evolution is with the science events. You know, I think all of them last year did a fantastic job of putting a lot of good of that. A really for the most part, the events, everything I heard were were great. Now let's see what the next step is as far as getting them broadcaster stream and what that's going to start to look like. And I think there's a lot of potential for some really cool stuff this year.

Tommy Marquezs:
Yeah, I agree. Where are you? We're already starting to see some some events pivot a little bit with some of what they're doing, like Reykjavik isn't doing a team competition this year, but they've added a pairs competition and like a non-elite division like an hour X, that's a little bit more community oriented. So I think those are kind of cool iterations that we'll see in year two, year three of all these events as they figure out the best way to provide a legitimate competition to send someone to the games and B really be a rallying point for their individual communities and their sections of the world. I have to say, I'm really enjoying the open in October. It's I'm. The two workouts that we've gotten so far are it's it's I felt like this has really indicated a big step forward in open programming on all levels.

Tommy Marquezs:
Week one was week five Pain. As far as I'm concern. We got it right out of the gate. You couldn't you can make a case. It was the most painful week, one workout ever. And then on top of that, we get another 20 minute workout where we get to see, you know, dumbbell thrusters for the very first time. You see thrusters show up outside of the last week of the open to the very first time in history. And then you still get to see the accessibility of the low reps know relatively moderate weight to make it accessible for the whole community. I've absolutely loved these two workouts, even though I'm still sore from from both of them.

Tommy Marquezs:
And it just makes me really excited for this season, especially with having the open in the fall when it's like, I don't know, it's a sports fan in me, I guess it's like I'm like are beginning of our competition seasons going? Well, we're in basically what's called this.

Tommy Marquezs:
We're almost in what's called the sweet spot where the NFL and NHL, the MLB are all are all all the four major sports are going at the same time. So to have Crossfit, in the mix of that seems really cool now. So it's just as a sports fan, it's there's there's a lot to love.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, and you just reminded me I have to put my twenty point two score in.

Sean Woodland:
So good call,.

Jason Ackerman:
Which I wasn't as happy about as my twenty point win score, but I'll take it. So I appreciate you guys being on. People want to check me out talking elite fitness, if that's some great gear as well. Talking with Ken, you're the guy that helps you guys with your apparel for some other projects as well as out of the man. Yeah. You guys have some great apparel. Check you guys out and we'll look forward to seeing you on the air at all the sanctioned events and ultimately in Madison, Wisconsin.

Sean Woodland:
Thanks Jason, appreciate

Jason Ackerman:
Thank you guys very much.

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