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109. Brandon Price | Ashburn CrossFit

109. Brandon Price | Ashburn CrossFit

Hey listeners! Today episode host Fern chats with Brandon Price they met on Brandon’s level one back in 2017. Then about two years go Brandon com to Fern asking for help with Coaching development. Brandon was working within Sports management when he found the Fitness on Earth on Netflix, went to his local affiliate. Once he decided he wanted to coach he emailed a ton of boxes asking for somewhere to start (unpaid) and only one guy got back to him, Lee and he’s never looked back since. Now, this episode now focuses on how to develop as a coach over a long time and getting a mentor. This is where we get a lot of question what should I do after my level 1? Level 2 prep? And getting ready for level 3?  This episode will help you navigate those time which everyone goes through, and shows you how an actual coach is doing it. 

Brandon is a hard-working driven individual, who showed and asked for help to get better and is. Which is the main point to be taken form this. 

Time Stamps: 

(4:41) Starting out- how? Pay?
(9:30) Cold sales/ commission base
(14:57) Moving for development of being a coach.
(17:16) Lesson plans
(22:48) Using feedback in-between check-in
(28:280 Difference phase of coaches 
(42:58) Drills for seeing and teaching

Social Media: 

@Ashburncrossfit
@Brandon_david3
https://www.ashburncrossfit.com/

Podcast:
#046: Jason Ackerman | We Need Better CoachesBeyond The Box

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/046-jason-ackerman-we-need-better-coaches/id1428107700?i=1000453045233

Recommended book:

How Bad Do You Want It?: Mastering the Psychology of Mind over Muscle – Fitzgerald Matt

 We value your feedback. After listening, please hit me up with any questions, comments, or thoughts on how we can make this show even better, and if you enjoyed it, please share it!

Instagram; @besthouroftheirday

Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/jason-ackerman

Brandon Price.mp4 transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

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Fern:
All right, everybody, welcome back to the best out of their day. Fern here, the good buddy mind, Mr. Brandon Price from an aspirin Crossfit, up in the northern Virginia area and. So for the listeners, this is a little bit unique. So Brandon probably falls in the bucket of most of you guys where he is a coach that I've been working with for a couple of years at this point on coach development. So e I did his level one and level two.

Brandon Price:
Just just the little one.

Fern:
Ya just level one. I you're a little too 2, but then we'll talk a little bit about Brandon and some things that we've worked with him with over the course of the past was a bit like 18 months two year.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, that sounds about right. I think the first time I came down there was like February twenty eight teams right before the open came into it.

Fern:
Ok, cool. So a lot of this is going to be kind of things that Brandon has learned along the way as a developing coach. He has a Level 2 coach working on a Level 3 and things the things that we've worked on and with lessons learned, what his experience was, he's going to get to ask me some questions. So I think you guys will enjoy it because a lot of people have questions like, well, hey, like, what's it you know, what's the experience like to have a mentor as a coach? We're just going to get it right from the horse's mouth right now. So I have no idea if he's going to say anything good or not.

Brandon Price:
We most mostly good stuff. Mostly good stuff.

Fern:
We will find out find out. He could be like, yeah. But real quick. Brandon, give everybody a little bit of your background. Give them like this eddard bumper sticker. How I found Crossfit, story.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, sure. No problem. So I used to work in sports management. Lifting was, you know, been a part of my life for like the last six years or so. And honestly, I just I just wanted to look good. And I looked at myself in the mirror like after I got out of the shower. Right. There was nothing sexy about the programming that I was doing as a bunch of bicep curls and bench pressing and all that. Nothing wrong with that. And then it was a December of like twenty sixteen. I had a day off and I was just like looking for something to watch on Netflix and stumbled across fittest on earth in 2015. So that was like that looks pretty freaking cool. And you got on a Google search was like, let's go find this Crossfit, thing. Found a gym in the Grand Rapids area. I'm originally from Michigan. And that's that's where that began. And then, you know, at the time, like I said, I was working in sports management and I was going through. I didn't like my job at at all. I was really unhappy about that. And I really enjoyed fitness. I liked learning about it. It was an opportunity to help people, which is really close to my art. And I I found Crossfit, and saw the community like aspect to everything where when you went in for a class and you got to put your phone down for an entire hour and just interact with people and be with people, I was really drawn to that.

Brandon Price:
And it was like it's like January 2016 where I was like, okay, how do I figure out how to do this? Like as a career? That's where that started. I ended up moving down to the Virginia area in like March of twenty seventeen just because Michigan is wicked cold. It's like five months of winter, like bunch of, you know, twenty five twenty five degrees below zero. Like into February and moved Virginia called like twelve different Crossfit, gyms. And I was just like hey I don't have an ale one currently but I would like to be a part of your gym someway. Somehow. I was like I'll even start by like cleaning out a storage unit, but I would like to be on staff and one day to be coaching and there was only one guy and call me back. His name's Lee. You've met him. He's been on the podcast with us. And he gave me an opportunity to do that. And that was, what, two to half years ago? Never looked back ever since. And then June 2017 took the L one. And that's that's where I met you. That's where our story began.

Fern:
Man, that was in Restin, correct?

Brandon Price:
That was in Restin, Yeah.

Fern:
I just I was at Maggie's gym. So it's funny that that story because this falls perfectly in line with a couple of different things that have come up on the podcast recently, which is the first one, which is, you know. How to interact or how to seek out. We talked about on the compensation episode with like how should that work with regard to like trying to work in a gym? You know, you went the old school just guerilla marketing tactic, which is like, I'm just going to talk to people and show up and so talk a little bit more about that because. So you called Lee. He called you back. And then what happened? Because this is this is where this is where people get a little. Nobody knows. Like what were the details works just like. OK. So Lee calls you back. And then what was the deal that you guys struck such that you are now the GM of Crossfit, Asburn?

Brandon Price:
Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I listen that compensation episode like a couple hours ago. So it's funny you mention that. That's a really good question. So initially when I was going into this, like, you know, doing personal training, Crossfit, training, I knew I was going to be a part time gig, but I wanted to be like I wanted to be paid. I was providing a service. Right, ultimately. And so I was looking for a gym that was going to do that. Now, I was making phone calls to these gyms while I was still in Michigan. I was like, hey, dude, I'm gonna be moving there. Like April 1 was my target date. But I really I really didn't know I hadn't noticed from my other job yet. But I gave him a call and he's like, yeah, man. Like, when you move down here, give me a call. And we'll just we'll just set something up and we'll just we'll just talk and see where like next steps can go. Right. And so I ended up moving down. There was like middle of April, give him another call and he's like, get first Monday. I think I got there on a Saturday and that first Monday went in. It was like 10 a.m. and it was just a very it was a pretty informal talk about like Lee is, you know, he's one of the most significant people I ever met in my life. But like that 1o min conversation, I was like. Based on what his values were like, you know, the direction that I could go and you compensated for. I was like, it's gonna be impossible not to want to work for this guy. Right. So I had a couple other opportunities, like do some personal training, like a Gold's Gym, which, you know, that's that's fine. If I would need to start there, I would have been.

Fern:
Real quick. So stay there for a sec. Stay ther for second oversight because this is relevant. Did you get into. So let's talk about that, because I think this is relevant to the whole conversation in general. Do you remember any of the specifics with regard to Gold's Gym? And can you talk about what the compensation looked like there?

Brandon Price:
Man Yeah, a little bit. Anyway, so that that conversation that was like that was gonna be a lot more full time. And that was that was basically pure sales is what it was going to end up being, something that was going to be something where.

Fern:
Was it commission based?

Fern:
It was all commission based. So you're just selling packages, which I'm I'm not totally against. But, you know, my other job that I was trying to working was also commission base. I wanted something that was going to be like I had some sort of income where I knew I could pay bills and everything. Right. So the guy shows me the spreadsheet and he was he's a nice dude. He shows me this spick and span like spreadsheet of like a master trainer who can make like one hundred grand. And that was after so many hours and, you know, getting like reoccurring revenue and everything. But it was pretty much you were pretty much going to live like on the floor just just talking to people, you know, interacting with them a little bit and then maybe asking questions like, would you want to work with me in a free trial class? And then you try to sell them into a 10 class, 20 class, whatever that was going to be packages from there. And besides that, you were pretty much going to be living on the Phone as far as that goes, which in the personal training world is not uncommon. It's not for everybody, but like you is pure commission, based as far as that was gonna go and it was gonna be a lot more hours than I was and I was really available to put in at that time.

Fern:
What you remember, what the percentage take on that was like as far as personal training goes. Was it a sliding scale?

Brandon Price:
Man, I really can't remember, to be honest. Jason

Fern:
Most of them, it's not very good. Like most of them, it's like well below 50 percent. Like like in the 30 ish person.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. And you talk about like the typical Crossfit, splits gonna be, you know, Chris Cooper's like fifty five forty five fifty six feet I think.

Fern:
And I think that model I think it is rapidly I think it has a lot of validity. I'm not married to it. I think a lot of it has to do with the person. Right. So I think the most most traditional big box gyms are much lower percentage, but you can make money other ways. So like you're on the phone call, they're paying you like hourly rate for doing administrative work. But the personal training rates are generally not very good. And I think Coop and four nights like that falls in the middle. And as far as compensation goes, I think that is an evolving thing depending on where the business is and where the trainer is. Right. So I definitely think there's there's a good chunk of people that fall in the category that should take home more than four nights. Right. Because they're that good and they're bringing in that much benefit to the business.

Brandon Price:
Yeah.

Fern:
So a lot of people, you know, and then on the other end were, you know, Shawn forstudents, like, he's just like, hey, you should give him way more. And there's a lot of gym owners that get freaked out about that because that's a ton of money. So I definitely think it's like, hey, figure out which model works best for you. Try to bring in the best people involved, the model, just like you have all of your your training, your coaching and everything else. But I think the big takeaway is there understand all of the models and where and how they can be effective. But I was just curious what that was for you when you started. But yeah, it's it's a lot of like sales phone calls, which is not for the faint of heart.

Brandon Price:
Well, it's also like, you know, it's like a it's a cold call. Like, I mean, you're calling people for the most part in a bigger gym. You probably don't go to the gym. You know, it's just it's just not for everybody. I would encourage people to go do that. I think it's a great experience, more healthy tremendously in life.

Fern:
I I have done it and brought, you know, a whole nother a whole nother episode on this. But we have a difference between warm and cold sales.

Brandon Price:
It's so different, dude.

Fern:
Like, I don't even I don't even consider warm sales skills.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, yeah.

Fern:
It's like you don't have to try. You like using it to try to do is not mess it up.

Brandon Price:
I mean, you literally just at that point, you just ask the question is like, how do I get you to join the gym? Yeah. Let it let. Let him talk first and you should be good.

Fern:
Yeah. For warm sales which is most Crossfit, gyms like. The only question you're gonna have to ask is like how can we help you? And then what form of payment would you like to use?

Brandon Price:
That's that's literally it. Can you. Can you sign up today. Go grab your payment. Yeah. And that's it.

Fern:
Yeah. Like cold cold sales is so much different. You have to learn to rejected. You have to learn to. You have to learn to be rejected and not be OK with that. Like it is. It is. It can be like a lonely ass job, man.

Brandon Price:
It can be it can be brutal. But dude. And I think. I think it helps you out in other aspects of life as well. Just because I like being okay like in conflict all the time. I think it's so beneficial and honestly like moving on from being told no. Like especially as a business owner, if you're running a business like you're gonna hear that way more often, you're to hear yes. For stuff, you know. And I think that's. I think it's some people should do. But again, it's not for everybody.

Fern:
It is not for everybody. It is not easy to deal with. Even for somebody who is super confident, like because you're going to get like in the cold call world, I mean, it's rough.

Fern:
Like you're crushing it at twenty five percent close crushing guys.

Brandon Price:
That's incredible. Twenty five percent say yes.

Fern:
Twenty five percent is incredible. So imagine that you have to make 100 phone calls and 90 of them are for sure going to tell you to pound sand. Like and probably not a nice way like that. Whereas on you after a while and it just makes it makes coming back to you in warm cells like so refreshing, you're like, oh, you want to be here? This is fantastic. Let's. So but no, I agree. I think everybody should do it because it does provide perspective. And you do develop some skill sets there, which is like navigating objections and understanding. You know, like the art of sales, because there is an art to it. So what,.

Brandon Price:
100 percent man.

Fern:
I was just curious about that. So you take your level on, you get all the Crossfit, rest. And then I don't. How long was it before you reached back out to me?

Brandon Price:
It was. It was it was a while. So I reached out to everybody at the I mean, go to the L-1. You're just like on fire. You're just like me. I was still one of the best weekend in my life. But, you know, I connected with all you guys, like, right after. And then I wanted to give myself like it was probably a good six months to coach and just get some reps underneath my belt because like I was brand a brand new guy. I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I have no certification to the National Academy of Sports Medicine and the L-1. But, you know, as far as like practical, it doesn't mean that it means shit. Right. So, yeah, I wanted to give myself a little bit of time. And then I started reaching out to people I read around the turn of the year or so.

Fern:
Who did you call first?

Brandon Price:
So I reached out to you and Mel first. And both of you.

Fern:
Which one was first? This is important bro.

Brandon Price:
This is really important. I'm not going to lie to you, man. It was mal.

Fern:
Fuck up bro,.

Brandon Price:
Do you want to end the call right?

Fern:
No. So Melody Fellman Crossfit, mph and like downtown DC.

Brandon Price:
Downtown DC.

Fern:
She a great trainer. But yeah, that hurts. That changes.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. Fantastic. Wow. Man, so awkward. Now I know what to do. Yes, it was Mal first . It was Mal Firs. But it was right around the same time where I was just like, OK, it's time to go. I just wanted to be around the best trainers that I could possibly be around. And like, whatever level that was gonna be, you know, for Melody, it was just you just going and observing. And then with you, we go way deep into the weeds. I know we're going to talk about that here first, but right around the turn of the year was, what, January twenty eighteen. Reached out to you to firstand. That's that's where I started with that progress.

Fern:
So. You have how many times you've been t our gym four?

Brandon Price:
Four or five a handful of that time.

Fern:
So I told people this all the time, like show to the gym. And this is now to the point where, like, this is what we do for this CDP, where we do, you know, the program that I'm a part of, where I've got a couple of people coming in September for a full three day immersion and we're gonna do feedback for three consecutive days in development. And it's funny because Spencer Hendel. talked about this yesterday. So if you haven't listened to the Spencer Hendel. podcast, go look at it. But I. There is a large minority of people that choose to do what you did. What Spencer did, which is, you know, pack up and just literally go wherever it is that is going to facilitate your your development. Know, so Spencer talked about he went to Boston, Denise and Austin. Turned him down. You know, as far as like getting a job. I know multiple other coaches that have done the same thing. And I don't know why more people don't try to go down that road because I'm honestly not aware of anybody that's gone through that path and didn't eventually get there.

Brandon Price:
Yeah.

Fern:
So like. So what is it about? What is it that for you that made it OK to just be like, I'm going to go down there and coach in this random dude's gym?

Brandon Price:
Yeah. OK. So, you know, it first it was it you know, it wasn't like that. I was completely fearless in all this. Like I was, you know, like shitting myself through a lot of it because I'm like, all right, here's here's Jason, who I really didn't have a relationship with. I was asking for your time from so you can develop, you know, a coach that was brand new. So first off is like, I was scared when I had that conversation, but I knew, like the output of that and like this stuff that I would learn would be so beneficial not only for myself, but for the people that we actually get to help and we get to coach. And that was more important to me than like not seeking out an opportunity. All right. So why like, why did I get there again? Again, I wanted to be around the best trainers that I could possibly, possibly be around. But like the whole process, that is just like I'm going to send a Facebook message. He's probably not gonna remember me. I don't know if that really matters.

Brandon Price:
And I'm going to go wherever I gotta go to to be able to develop myself there as a coach. And like I said, like it could've been just observational, me just sitting in a corner with a notebook because then I still get to see you like do your thing and you could pick up a great progression or a Q or whatever that's gonna be. But like for you, you let me come in there and actually like do a class, which was really, really good as far as like coach development for myself being okay. Being uncomfortable in that situation and asking for help from you guys is probably the best decision I've ever made for myself as a trainer, Coach it was.

Fern:
Now for for context, right? It's not like Brandon walked in the gym and I was like, take the take the 6:00 a.m. now. He was he was there pretty much all day. I mean, you showed up ass crack. I'm pretty sure you might have showed up for the 6:00 a.m..

Brandon Price:
It was 6 a.m. on that first day as I drove down Wednesday, stayed overnight and got in there for the 6 a.m. and it was like 6 a.m. I'm watching you. I observed likes I observed like five classes before I did.

Fern:
So show by the end of the day. I remember it. You asked or I asked you. But at that point, we had had enough conversations where I was fairly comfortable based on what I what I had, what I knew about you at that point. And I am like, it's not like I just threw you in there. I was just I'm literally in the class.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. I mean, you were you were you were my shadow the whole time. And you were going anywhere. Everybody was going to Safe so.

Fern:
Yeah. So so talk about that a little bit. If you remember some of the things that you picked up throughout the day and then walk me through kind of that day if whatever you remember of it. So you're there. Is it overwhelming it? Are you are you just frantically taking notes? I mean, I remember we talked throughout the day and then at the end of the day, you're coaching a class. How do you feel about that?

Brandon Price:
Yeah. So the very first thing I ever remember doing was the day before where you're like, do you know how to write a lesson plan? And I was like, no. So we we spent like we spent, which, by the way, Crossfit, Crossfit, backon. That's really great. Like lesson planning a certification for that, which I would highly recommend people go out and do if you have no idea how to set up a lesson plan. And if you don't write lesson plans, that's gonna be your next best opportunity to develop yourself as a coach.

Brandon Price:
That was the very first thing I showed up there Wednesday. And we're talking about programming and you're like, can you read a lesson plan? I was like, man, I've no idea what you're talking about. And so we sat there with a whiteboard was probably 20 minutes and we wrote out the timeline and we did everything from General warm up all the way down to the cool down of just a sample. And we use Wednesdays programming kamina what that workout was. And you're like right up. Write a lesson plan when you go home to your hotel tonight and bring it to me at 6:00 a.m.. That was like the first thing probably s showed up like maybe on a half hour, maybe 15 minutes to 6:00 and like that was the first thing that we went through. And like, I spent a lot of time in the lesson plan and we changed. I don't know the specifics of it. I can't remember what that programming is. I think I'm trying to think of what that was that day. I can't remember what it was. I feel like I've gone down always. That's glass. That's what it was. It's five best lines. The reason I remember that is because for someone to misplace Fab Five back squat and then went to your place and I'm like, surely the programming will be different side by side squat, which is really funny and Crossfit, program. So that was the first thing that we ended up doing and we still picked apart the lesson.

Fern:
You remember what we changed about it?

Brandon Price:
I remember that it didn't lead quite enough time back for cool down. I think I last like men like three minutes or maybe not any time. Like I went all the way to the 60. We reduced that down quite a bit. The gentle, warm up we didn't do. And I remember in particular like the teaching aspects of it. When we got into that, I remember we ripped. I mean, that was completely non-existent. I don't even know if it existed. Right. So we kinda we wrote we wrote that out. Words. OK. We're going to have you know, we're gonna do a circle and we're gonna have air squats, you know, on call. We're gonna focus on the feet in the first 10 reps. And then on the second, you know, 10 wraps, we're gonna focus on the knees going out.

Brandon Price:
Right. I remember that was probably the biggest part to it, that just like I said, it didn't like it didn't exist. I just didn't know how to do that at that point. Right. Yeah. So the cool down for that we needed to space out a little bit more time, release more time at the end so that to be able to be there it needed to be more specific as far as like even like taking breaks. Right. So like the bathroom water whiteboard stuff limiting like two to three minutes for that. That wasn't incorporated into that warm up sets before the side by side. I'm not even sure if that was in there. But you're like do you do you want them to be warm before on the barbell for the back squat? I'm like, yeah. Probably.

Fern:
We were we If we were to summarize this lesson plan, it would fall in the not so good bucket.

Brandon Price:
But no,.

Fern:
That's pretty standard, right. So it's not like very few people get that even remotely close to being right. And the running joke that I have with the staff is when people come on and they start getting their first couple evaluations, I can probably write the evaluation before they do the class and it will be 90 percent correct because I know generally. Yeah, well, if once you see him enough, you know that like most people don't know what they don't know. So they all make same mistakes. And that's the good part is that they're all correctable. Right. So and that's the value of getting feedback. So you go and you teach the class. And then I think a lot of people don't do this because nerve racking. But like, obviously, you're nervous. But how did you remember how you felt after it went down?

Brandon Price:
Ok. So it doesn't every single time I go down to your place. I was there. I was there last week just for context. And I was working with Cassity. And I was still like, really anxious and like and like, I know my I know my stuff pretty well after, you know, a thousand hours of coaching and, you know, two and half years of doing this. I'm always nervous when I go down there the first time. Yeah, I was I was really nervous and I was really nervous before I actually taught the class. Prior to that, you know, wasn't wasn't so bad. And we were going through the lesson plan. You know, I was a little bit nervous as far as that goes. But like everything else was just basically icing on the cake. Like, I got to learn so much stuff, you know, as far as that goes. But yeah, when before before I knew I'm gonna be evaluated like, yeah, I get nervous. But then like as soon as I start to talk like give the brief and like introduce myself and get names from everybody, like everything, everything calms down quite a bit.

Brandon Price:
The first time there might have been a lot more anxiety just because I was constantly looking up at the clock and like in my own time with my lesson plan. Am I at the bar bill at 22 after the hour? I don't think I was anywhere close to the times and I was trying to do my job. You know, that was first time working with the lesson plan, working at a new gym with new people as well.

Fern:
Cool. So then you when you live or, when you when you leave there and you go back. Talk to me a little bit about like how you developed your plan moving forward. So you've gotten this one full day at the box. Probably an overwhelming amount of information. And you leave and you go back to the gym and then what does that look like until the next time you show up?

Brandon Price:
Yeah, I try to I try to do like like big takeaways with stuff. So if you think if you try to focus. So that's that first day I had more information in that one day and maybe like, oh, my gosh, like so like all the other days maybe come by. There was so much information, great information that I learned. But if you try to focus on like 20 different things, chances are you're just going to do them all really poorly. So from there, I was I was really trying to maybe take away like one to three. And I still try to do this with each evaluation that I end up getting and apply that into like the very next day's class. And so the first thing from that first day was there was going to be a lesson plan to everything I end up writing. And I knew the points as far as like teaching goes that I was going to do. And then besides that, there was this there was a seeing aspect to it that we went over at the end of the day that I really, really picked up on, because I didn't like I didn't know how to, like, look at the room. I think that's something a brand new coach like that. You know, they look around, they like maybe call rep and they try to like take in the whole room and like, you can't see everybody. Like when everybody's move and you can't like, you got to focus like one person at a time. But even back then, like, I I did that. Right. So the same thing was, you know, we threw out the whiteboards. We did our little makeshift like circle as far as your squats go. And you're like, OK, when people are not moving, here's we look at static false. And then while people are. You're looking at one athlete and that's it. And you give out cues accordingly. That was the first like one to three things that ended up doing any actionable from that was, yes, there's a lesson plan every single day.

Brandon Price:
And I still write lesson plans every single day, even though I've been coaching, you know, obviously for for a decent amount of decent hours and a decently long time after that was actually making incorporating teaching into that. So instead of spending like I'm giving you any part, remember, it's like less than five minutes on the actual teaching aspect of it. You know, it was like pretty typical is like, all right, here's an air squat, do 10 air squats and yeah, looks pretty good. And like, that's about it.

Fern:
So that's less I said probably that's probably par for the course for most people. They're like it's about that's and I'm like, well I guess it is you know, it is what we do for the most part waterfall and the gross motor skills bucket. However, that doesn't mean that there's nothing to be taught there. You know, it still a lot of things I want to make sure happen. But most people don't know what they don't know. And they don't know how to break that down, to start to teach it in some sort of efficient manner. But if I was going to critique myself and feel free to jump in here, I'm thinking back on that. And this is probably two years ago. And just like everything else, giving feedback is a skill. Right. So giving feedback, whether it's you know, whether it's. And there's different levels of feedback. So there's feedback to the athlete, there's feedback to a coach. And then you have a good go one level above that, which is feedback to a coach who's giving feedback. Right. And there's different levels to all of that. And if I was a critique myself, and I think I've gotten better at this is like it is very, very possible to give people too much information. And I believe that's probably what I did. And I've refined that over the years about how I deliver that, because you can just crush people. And I have crushed people. Perhaps we're just it's just an overwhelming amount of information because that's what I got. And there's pros and cons to that.

Brandon Price:
Sure. Yeah. That first day was it was great. There was a lot of information in that first day and it was like a twelve hour workday. And it was just in like in between everything and coaching. Like we talked about the business, we talked about developing que and doing all that stuff. We talked about a whole bunch of other crap where we were just kind of like, you know, we're just shooting the shit on the side. And that was incorporating all that, too.

Fern:
So, OK, so fast forward. And then I want to talk about the difference. You know, obviously, Brennans I'm pretty sure it's four times he's been or four times over two years. You can call it like roughly once every six months.

Fern:
He gets me up and is like, hey, I want come to the gym and I want you to give me both barrels. And so you come down last week and let's talk about the feedback you got last, because the feedback we got last week is very different. Right. Like, it's it's it's at a different level of minutia of things that we were talking about.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, I definitely was, so. Yeah. There's so there's a lot of time in between there, you know.

Brandon Price:
I mean, it was pretty close to a thousand hours of coaching in between the first evil and like when I went down and did last week, there was you know, there was a level 2 development year over the level two and a couple evaluations with you guys in between there. So last week, I mean, the big takeaways that we had from that was so funny. I told this back to my staff. We're like more than anything else was louder, like over and over and over. It's not wrong. CASSIDY was like, okay, I'm going to be you for just a second. He goes across the room and I couldn't I couldn't hear. He's like, that's what you sound like. And say, OK. But the big boy voice on. But it was louder. It was the second one was addressing addressing the whole room from a macro perspective, did very, very well. And like a one on one scenario where I was giving cues to individual athletes, but I would say rarely addressed the entire room as a whole. We were doing. We're doing power queens that day or power cleans. And it was like if you see the entire room, you know, has a lack of a shoulder shrug. Get in the middle of the room and then, you know, yell out the right guys. Give me a big shoulder shrug here and this next one and then watch the room again.

Fern:
Just for context to kind of pull the curtain back from what Brandon is talking about. Is this is this is a very typical. Process or a very typical development. So everybody goes through different phases of development and coaching. And so first thing is just like learn the basics, like lesson plan. Understand the, you know, the movements and the faults and understand and queuing and all that stuff. And then you start to get into it a little bit of group management. And and then what happens is once people start getting comfortable with seeing and correcting, then because that's just the evolution of how it works is they become very what we would describe as micro. So that micro is I work with this specific athlete. Right. And if there's 50. Yeah. If there's fifteen people in the class, then what inevitably ends up happening is I end up working with all 15 of them in a group setting individually. Right. So if you can imagine how this unfolds is let's say what we were teaching this match that day. What was that day ?

Brandon Price:
No we did Power Cleans that day.

Fern:
Power Cleans. So what we were observing is like Brandon is is seeing and correcting very well, but his efficiency is taking a nosedive because he's having to do all of them in what would be considered a one on one environment. Right. So. Right. The proximity ends up that he that he's having with an athlete to have an interaction, ends up hamstringing him and his effectiveness for the group. So what we started talking about is like, hey, will you need to be able to have an interaction but not be in a one on one proximity? Right. So I need to be able to have an interaction from a distance that is still one on one, but not at a one on one proximity meeting like arm's length away. Because every time I do that, I have to cover distance, distances, time. We all know that forces every time just a nerd out. But those are the things we start to iron out. It's like, hey, just make that cue from over here, right. Like you can talk to that person. And this is where Kassidy was going with the you need to be louder, which is like I can still have those one on one interactions. I just want to be standing next you to do that. You know, it's like managing the micro group or the micro athlete with the macro group while not losing people's attention in there, just to kind of unpack what Rand is talking about. And like I said, it's a very natural evolution. Like people end up doing that because I like I got to make this correction. This needs to happen. So then once we've established that, they know that. I'm like, OK, now I need to pull you out. We need to zoom out a little bit because there's 14 other people here. So how do I get one on one interaction minus the one on one proximity?

Brandon Price:
Yeah. That was just that was just going into like the middle of the room and being like, hey, Jason, you know, when you're when you're pulling up on your barbell, like, give me a shrug and that's like from across the room. What ends up happening at that point? You guys made a great point. This is like, you know, Brandon, you standing next to Jason all of a sudden shrugging his shoulders. And then like there could be in that, that's like a multiplication factor, like how many people are in your room, so you might have just given one to you, but like speaks like ten different people. Right.

Yeah. And so again, there's again, just an evolution of coaching as far as like, OK, I have the skill set to see incorrect movement.

Fern:
But now how do y maximize my efficiency as the number of athletes increases? And all that means is I have to be able to do things from a distance, have to be able to work here and there simultaneously via either a visual and a tactile or visual and a verbal cue. So that was some of the things. And then I think one of the other things we were we worked on, which is common, too, because it's not your jam. It's just like, hey, be aware of your your visual line of sight on athletes.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, we did. You got a unique set up there. Did you like that? We never. We talked about just like it would never happen in my gym just because the way that it's ended up setting up. But it's definitely somebody keep in mind, didn't like my goal. And then the end is to not only coach in my gym. Right. So that's that was fantastic.

Fern:
So just again for context. So Brandon, you're y'all's gym is a rectangle, correct?

Brandon Price:
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You can stand on one side of the room, see everybody.

Fern:
Yes. Ours. It's a little bit different. So there's a dog leg in there trying to think there's a couple other different gyms like New England is kind of like that's just a smaller up there. Yeah, but same type of dog leg. And so if you're standing in one particular corner, which in our gym is like you can't see around the corner, which there could be five athletes over there. And that was one of the things we talked about afterwards, too, is like, hey, you need to be aware it's not you can't go to the corner where you need to be aware that if you're there for certain things, you can't see. But what's also just as important as the athletes can't see you, so now they're bored and now they're off like dicking around doing something else or not paying attention. So like them being able to see you is just important as you be able to see them.

Fern:
Yeah. Yeah. So like just a quick question for you there. For me, one of the things that we talked about, gosh, it might have even been on day one, because I think I got caught like in the middle of the air squats circle. And so like with that, because you were basically like, hey, you like being the center of the room so that people can see you at that point. But like your back is turned to like other athletes that are within the GM. So like, how do you how do you balance that to make sure you can see the entire room but light. Make sure that you're in enough proximity to be able to like get people to see you so your presence is seen there.

Fern:
Yeah. So the the. It's impossible to not have your back to people at any given point. And I think the only difference is having awareness that your back is to people versus and not it's between. I'm fully aware that there's athletes behind me and I'm going to move in a manner that allows me to get them in certain intervals versus somebody who just has their back turned for three minutes because they've just forgotten about athletes that are among or that they're standing in the corner and they're just fully not aware that they don't have eyes on athletes over here. So I don't think it's this scenario where, like, you can never turn your back to people. It's just simply being aware that, hey, I am now can not see a certain population of athletes in my gym and I need to get out of this position as quickly as possible. So I like to refer to it as visual advantage. Like I'm just constantly moving to get visual advantage.

Fern:
And I sit and I think that's how you saw that is like it sounds really dumb. But just simply being aware that I am at a visual disadvantage and have to move away from that would be the same thing if you were teaching any sort of like like if you guys in the military, law enforcement, it's like weapons and tactics is like, hey, I need to have a visual advantage, like whether it's high ground or something like that. But like the more I can see, the better. So I'm constantly trying to put myself in the US in a position or scenario where I can see the most. And then if I do have to put myself in a visual advantage, the only thing I just need to be aware of is it needs to be for a minimal amount of time. Right. So like because again, if they can't see me or they realize that my back is to them, there is something that happens in an athlete's mind, which is they're not paying attention to me. And now I check out. So, yeah, that whole process of simply being aware that that that is occurring and then moving in order to facilitate or correct that. So that's that would be my answer.

Brandon Price:
I got, okay.

Fern:
How was so you can critique me here. So in that whole process, what what has been your feelings as far as like the feedback? Right. So like it hasn't been good. Has it been bad? What? And what did you find more or less beneficial?

Brandon Price:
Yeah, overall, again, best thing that I've ever done for myself as far as coaching was seeking out somebody who is much better, much smarter than I was and picking their brain for an entire day. Day one. If we could have came up with like top one, the three things got here, like here's where your focus needs to be. And I think day too, like I went back right before the L2 and he gave me the valuation. And you did that that time where you're like it was it was teaching thing. Like, again, it wasn't very long. And you're like your biggest opportunity to get advantage here is to like really break out your teaching and you should be able to teach the other deadlift for 20 minutes or whatever it was that day. One was like there was so much information that man is just taking like the top, like one, two, three things of like a. This is where you like. This is where you have your best opportunity to get better as far as that goes.

Fern:
I think, again, that's that. I would I would agree with that criticism. I think it's valid and correct. And so and this is what I've done now and this is this is what I've been working with CASSIDY on, because and again, it's an evolution. Right. And that is part of the process. One of the first things you do when you start giving feedback is I don't know anybody that because it doesn't go through this is you give too much information, right?

Brandon Price:
Yeah.

Fern:
So then you have to taper the delivery of that information. So now how I go about. Depending on the environment, is is first have the person give you their own feedback by asking how it went. Most often what I find is that people are pretty accurate with their with their own feedback, like they're fairly aware, which just allows me. It opens up for it opens up the door for me to talk about it as well. Makes it a little bit more comfortable. And I can say I either agree or I can say I disagree. I actually think you did pretty well there. Here's where I think some other things that we could work on. But now what I do is I will. There's two processes happening at the same time. So as I'm gathering information on as far as giving feedback, I will collect everything in written form. And then but that's not what I'm going to give you now. Right. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to. So for those of you who are trying to give feedback to your coaches, here's a way to do it again.

Not the way I will just start writing and I will literally write down every single thing that I observe where they're standing. What they're saying. How many athletes they interact with like different types of cues they use. Were they on time? And I'll just I'll just write it all down. And it looks like trash on paper because there's not if there's.

Brandon Price:
There's got to be so much going into that.

Fern:
Well, and there's not a real way to organize that real time. Right. So where I think the art and the skill of that comes with consolidating it and then delivering it fairly quickly afterwards. But in the meantime, it's just it's everything. Right. But you don't want to give everything. So the way I do it now is far more organized. I write down everything and what I'll do is like kind of recap it. And then what I like to do is put it into one of six buckets. Right. In those six buckets fall into the six criteria that we would use for evaluating coaches, teaching, seeing and correcting group management presence and attitude and demonstration. And I'll take the one or two, maybe three things that I that I have a common theme on and on and on and it'll go in one of those two buckets. So, you know, so the person largely has a problem with group management based on all the notes that I've that I've taken, I'm like, OK, that's bucket number one.

Fern:
This is the first primary piece of information that they need to walk away with here. And the other one might be teaching. So I'll look it down on my cake. Here's the two things we need to focus on group management and teaching everything else. It's for you to look at later. But here's the takeaway. I want you to work on these things. Here's one to two things that are actionable on these two big ticket items that you can now go home and work on. And that, I have found is far better received. And it allows people to take action on it much, much faster. And that was simply because I was shitty at giving feedback, you know. So that, too, is a process, but that's how you can start to pack it up. And I just want to make it super objective. And I'm like, OK, well, we're evaluating them on six things. My feedback should only fall within those six things currently. And that's the way I found it to be far more valuable these days and much better received. You know, like try to leave opinions out of it. Well, you know, I think you should do it this way. Like that ship doesn't matter. Like, that's just your opinion. Like, what can this person walk away with right now? And how do I give them the two big ticket items that it will help them improve? Based on this feedback, would they have the biggest fault with with regard to their coaching? So I don't know if that's what you walked away with this time, but that's usually the goal now.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, I mean, never saying you are the one with the all too well. It was very specific. It was like focus on teaching. Like this is where you gotta get better. The first time like again we spent twelve hours together and I had oh my gosh I had so many pages of notes that day and and it was super beneficial, but little overwhelming when you talk about how much information we actually transcended and did. Question for you. ferne is like it's like out of the six like coaching criteria for let's say this is one of the questions that I had was kind of on this topic right now is I gilling in 2D L2, whereas like the biggest like lack of experience or maybe maybe stuff like coaches' the worst at as far as a 6 koshien criteria's go for somebody that's going into the L2.

Fern:
Yeah. The L2 is generally in my opinion is falls into the teaching in the seeing and correcting. So like I put seeing interacting in one bucket or their separate skills which can't do one without the other for the most part. I think most people could come up with a decent correction, but the vast majority of people over teach in the vast majority of people don't see very well in those that because both of those just take wraps like you have to be a terrible teacher before you're an okay teacher and you have to be OK to do before you're a good teacher and vice versa before you get really good. So yeah, most people just really, really over teach things instead of just keeping extremely simple. And then most people just don't have enough reps on their eyeballs to see quickly enough to make that correction right then and there. So those are the two big ticket items and the level two is it it is on purpose, a contrived environment. So there's not a ton of. There is minimal group management when you have the small groups, when you teach five people. But most people don't get into the full the full blown group management like we would do in coach development program. We're like, you're going to have to manage a full class. That's that's a. That's a lot for most people. Most people don't do it very well. I would say the teaching and then the seeing probably in most in most people the teaching is they just literally don't do the homework. You know, they don't know.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. I mean, that was my follow up question was like, what drills will you suggest to somebody who's going to approach that to make sure they got their teaching in their seemed?

Fern:
I mean, it's nothing sexy we've already talked about in the podcast, and I'm pretty sure I sent you home with that homework when you left the first time, which is like, hey, if you can't if you don't know the progressions, like just start there, like, it's not sexy. You know, there's no there's no like, you know, no magic rhino tusk. You know, that is that you're going to do that. Like it's literally the nerdy stuff of like write them down, write them down again, write them down faster, you know, because like it's just not where you want to be. Spending mental resources is like trying to figure what the hell the points for the squatter to notice. So once you've gotten out of the way, now you can take action on those items because they're going to pop out to you. So that's that's like the biggest deficiency. And then then once you've got that knowledge, now you can start working on the art of coaching, which is the delivery delivery and your interaction with athletes and how that works. So. You know, it takes a lot of work on the front end, which is not fun or cool. But that's what I tell everybody. Start like, you know, the faults in the points, Forman's in the progression, start there. You'll be significantly better served simply by having that information readily available.

Brandon Price:
Cool

Fern:
So if your one of the listeners and you have another question for me. What would it be? Or Ackerman or Todd? I'll speak for both of them.

Brandon Price:
Oh, man, you sound you sound a little bit better than those guys. Words worse.

Fern:
Yeah, that's why. Very, very big. You still called Mel before you called me.

Brandon Price:
You're not going to let that go, are you? No, never. Very big radio voice, man. No.

Fern:
Cool, man. Well, listen, I wanted to get on this because I thought this would be super beneficial for a lot of listeners, because I think it's important for some for people to hear from somebody like you who, you know, not to say that I'm not on the journey because I'm absolutely on the journey with you. But people who kind of fall a little bit more in your experience level where they're just like, hey, I'm I'm in the jam. I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to be more proficient and understand that, like. Yeah, it just it just it's a lot of work. Like, that's just all it is, you know, and it's like finding feedback and like, you know, if you haven't listened to the episode with with Spencer and and now with Brandon, like seek out help and go there and get help. Don't just sit in your gym and think that it's going to get better. You're gonna get better. You know, you're generally the big fish in that small pond. And that's that's not where you want to be.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. Absolutely, man. So this is good. Yeah. The newer coaches that go out there is like, you know, B, OK. Being uncomfortable as well. Like you said it, you said it really well. Go ask for help. Surround yourself with people that are smarter than you and who are better than you because it's just going to make you a better coach. And if you have aspirations of like, you know, getting on seminar staff or, you know, do anything like that or working strength conditioning program like that, like you're gonna need to work those reps with somebody who's just much, much better, you know, for sure.

Fern:
All right. Two questions. Yeah. Recent book that you've read, anyone that you recommend. I know you're a reader.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, quite. Quite a few. So I currently or I've read all. Oh, my gosh. What was it called?

Brandon Price:
I'm blanking on it. How bad do you want it? Matt?

Brandon Price:
Blank on the blank and in the last name, as far as that goes, I'll get guns like a mine.

Fern:
Sounds like a mindset book is out.

Brandon Price:
It is very, very much as a mindset book, which was which was very good. Has to do a lot of like, you know, by the psycho biological stuff like in your mind as far as like your cardiovascular durance and everything like that goes very, very good. Other stuff that I've listened to as far as like media goes. Like best hour of their day. If you're looking to develop your coach's stuff, like I would be listening to that almost every single day and such a plug as we're on here right now, it really is beneficial. I love the air squatting the deadliest more than any other episode where you guys just dive into that. And I have coaches that I've coached these movements hundreds times and got so much so much stuff out of just listening to those two again.

Fern:
Cool. And then last question. This is this is a new one. I have yet to ask this one yet, but it's now broke down. Man is now my question for every guest that I interview in years. What have you failed at recently?

Brandon Price:
Oh, man, we gotta we gotta talk. Talk about talking about stuff on the negative here that I failed at.

Fern:
Im a life coach you now because it's not talking about the negative.

Brandon Price:
Ok, here we go.

Fern:
Right. The difference between failing and being a failure. Right. OK. So what did you fail that? Because then what we wanted then this is this is what I'm trying to do is identify those failures and then unpack them for lessons learned. Right. So I. Because you're going to fail. So because this is something I get super worried about with my kids. I don't want them to be in today's society like afraid of failure. So we're going to talk about it a lot with my kids. Hey, would you fill out today? Like it's cool if you fail. Just don't be a failure.

Brandon Price:
Yeah, just pick it up. Keep going. That's a man. What if I fail that recently? Tough question. That was no is not something I expected to be.

Fern:
A curve ball bro.

Brandon Price:
You have done.

Fern:
Yeah. We do here on the best of our day. Making you uncomfortable, bro.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. Yeah. Typically, I'm OK with that. Something that I failed at recently. Gosh, I'm I'm not even close to perfect as far as that goes. Gosh, man. I'm going to get. I'll get I'll get personal. Leave it outside of the gym as far as that goes.

Fern:
Dosen't to be coaching related.

Brandon Price:
Yeah. So man. So I try to live and die by my calendar, which is just bludgeoning my time throughout the day. And every week I put in I put in time to like talk to my family. My family always in Michigan, it's five miles away. And man, I haven't made a single one of those phone calls in. It's been a long time, dude. It's been a long time. So like every time and that action bill comes up and like the reminder comes up on a Tuesday night was like, call Kyle. Haven't haven't done that in a while. Mam in dat's. Yeah, that's not good.

Fern:
I can empathize with something I'm not good at either. So yeah, I get it. But now we can come up with action items to correct that my friend. OK. There you go, bro. All right, everybody. That's all we got for you today. Big things, takeaways like seek out, you know, someone who's gonna help you out with coaching. We all do it. I do it. Brandon's doing it. All the coaches that we have on the show, they've all done it. It's the only way you're gonna get better. But if you guys have questions about anything we talked about with regard to development, all that stuff. Let me know and we will get those answered for you. Brandon, thanks for your time, brother. I know you're busy running a gym, so I will let you get back to that.

Brandon Price:
Dude was cool jammin with you as normal, man. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Fern:
Alright brother see ya.

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