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111. Q + A with Chris Hinshaw

111. Q + A with Chris Hinshaw

Hey listeners! Today’s episode is a real inside for you guys. As you maybe know we run a mentorship group and as part of that there are weekly calls and during these calls, there is a certain topic that is discussed. Along with we have guest coaches on to pervied an insight into their speciality subjects and allow for them to answer questions directly. This episode is the mentorship call with Chris Hinshaw from back in August. 

This is a unique opportunity to see into mentorship, which is something that is not being offered anywhere. It’s a long term development over weeks and months with constant new material, that is tailored to the individual whether your a coach who’s been coaching for 10 years or if you have your level 1 for a week. This will help you get your level 2 or 3 (members have already) and help you improve as a coach. – Any questions, make sure to reach out to us! 

Time Stamps:

(4:33)  Dave’s Question: Do you change your approach to training as it gets closer to the open or if you have another event coming, maybe like a sanctionable event?

(6:59) Catherine’s Question: what is one thing that we should be incorporating more into our average Crossfitters programming to see the highest benefit to a Robeck capacity? 

(9:03) Hosie’s Question: What’s your Excalibur program?

(12:07) Robins Question: what are your favourite running skill drills to add to Crossfit, warm-ups to help improve athletes running technique?

(14:20) Mitche’s Question: Drills to help with the mindset in workouts that are challenging?

(22:45) Matt’s question’s: Your thoughts on nasal breathing. Aren’t we supposed to be breathing that way?

(28:57) Daniel Question: Have a lot of ex runners in class and have long-time running injuries. What’s a good way to reintroduce them to running painlessly?

(32:25)  Gretchen’s Question: How do you choose what types of active recovery movements you choose to pair with the movement itself in order to increase the capacity?

(35:30) Matts Question: Jason Ackerman: What are some good ways that as coaches we can support their [the atheltes]  goal, be it a marathon, a triathlon or something extended period like that, but maintain intensity and effectiveness in class?

(42:41) Matt Question: You sound very personable, as you obviously are early on. Did you find that you gained trust with your athletes through building relationships or with delivering results?

Don’t forget to check out the Aerobic Captiy Course, to learn more from Chris himself.

aerobiccapacity.com/events

Check out our website – besthouroftheirday.com – to learn more about our private coaches development group.

https://www.besthouroftheirday.com/mastermind-crossfit-coaching/

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Check out our website – besthouroftheirday.com – to learn more about our private coaches development group. https://www.besthouroftheirday.com/mastermind-crossfit-coaching/

Q + A with Chris Hinshaw.mp4 transcript powered by Sonix—the best audio to text transcription service

Q + A with Chris Hinshaw.mp4 was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the latest audio-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors. Sonix is the best way to convert your audio to text in 2019.

Jason Ackerman:
All right. We started recording no need to record Todd talking trash. Chris, you don't need to hear anything about that. I'm going to maybe be a good question ask you. How does one develop the capacity to back squatOne. Eighty five. Fifty times. But if we have time, you can answer that. Let me do a brief introduction for you here. Can you guys. I'll see, Chris. He's maybe on a different screen. Let me see if I can. You guys should all be able to. You can make him the bigger picture if you want, but doesn't need much of an introduction.

Jason Ackerman:
Chris has coached at this point dozens and dozens of games athletes. He runs aerobic Capacity Seminar, which I highly recommend you check out. I saw him on what on the waves last year and learned in those three hours more than I had learned in many, many trainings and specialty seminars. Great stuff. And I'm really excited to have him on here. So. Chris, welcome to our mentor group.

Chris Hinshaw:
Oh, thank you. Yeah, no, thank you. Wod on the waves? Boy, what a what an experience. That was a.

Jason Ackerman:
It was amazing. And as you may or may not know, Fern and I will be back on as well as my wife Roz and we saw that you will be on and we recommend all of you guys check it out because again, are you doing three seminars again? Do you know what you'll be doing?

Chris Hinshaw:
I don't know. I do know that they reached out and asked which coaches that I collaborate well with, which I gave them, Dave Durante and Chad Vonn. So I do know that they are Dave and Chad both have agreed to also attend, which can be really cool, especially if I have an opportunity to collaborate with one or both of them in some type of content presentation. Be great.

Jason Ackerman:
Yeah. I interviewed Austin for today's episode and went up today about one of the waves that he mentioned, Dave, Chad and of course the mayhem team will be there. So you're interested in training with some of the fittest in the world? It's pretty great.

Chris Hinshaw:
You know, that was I'm glad that you brought. I mean, that those three one hour or so they told me originally that I can do three one hour class, but they would all be the same. And, you know, I always feel like when you're given those opportunities that you really should respect what you're being given and deliver to a maximal ability. And I find that that a lot of people in the early days when they're starting out, even anybody in that job, you know, they get paid a certain amount of salary. And after being on that job for a year or two years, even though they haven't taken on more responsibility for some reason, they think that they deserve more money. I look at it where I get these opportunities always. And I want to respect the fact that if I got an opportunity like that eight years ago. How would I treat it today? And I always look at it where I want to sit. And that's what I did. I sat until those lectures were at around 1:00 in the afternoon. I sat in my cabin and wrote and rehearsed and practiced content. I wanted it to be as best it could possibly be. And that's why I wrote three different one hour pieces, because I wanted to respect the people, one that we're showing up. But also, let's not forget the value of this opportunity. And you'll have to be reflective when you look at the value.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, I think that's one thing that everybody loves about you, is your can you as much as you've grown within the Crossfit, community. You are one of the most humble individuals I know. And it's very clear from having been a participant there that you put the time in. I don't remember. But we were walking towards it one day and all of us were completely lost on the way because the ship was so huge, but we didn't find it. So I wanted to give our members the opportunity to talk to an expert such as yourself. And I asked them, you should be able to see the gap. And as you answer the questions, I will kind of moderate and look for the next one. And if it's something you want to follow up on with that specific individual, we'll let them come off and dive a little deeper into the questions that work for you, Chris.

Chris Hinshaw:
Yeah. All right.

Jason Ackerman:
So let's let's just start with Dave Mitchell's question. Dave's on here in full uniform. It looks like I'm not not addressing the bad guys, but sitting there. Do you change your approach to training as it gets closer to the open or if you have another event coming, maybe like a sanctionable event? Or were the games not for the open?

Chris Hinshaw:
No, that was that. So I definitely don't do it for the open for sanction. All of those of us.

Jason Ackerman:
Deverson Bolivar's. Hi, how are you? Hold on to that. Whoever is off mute, can you guys, if you want to be my guest in Jakarta.

Jason Ackerman:
There we go. All right, Chris. Sorry about that. You still there? You're on. Go ahead.

Chris Hinshaw:
So thanks, Charles is a whole different thing. I mean, part of it is, is that athletes are now looking at sanctions a little differently, not just necessarily about the qualification in getting a bit in the games, but they can make prize money. And so in some cases, athletes are peaking and tapering going into a sanctionable event. And that historically hasn't been the case, that athletes would do competitions as part of training. And now they're breaking up the season and targeting specific events. And I see that in terms of the elite level athletes now where they have a different season. Then there are the games. All the games. Absolutely the games. The trigger is completely different for every athlete and it depends upon their strengths and weaknesses and how I program. What makes it tough now is this new format for coaches. It's really, really difficult because in essence, you have different tracks and different programs for every individual athlete. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I have scaled way back. I can't manage effectively athletes and continue progressing them in the direction we both want to go and a spy, give them more attention and time.

Jason Ackerman:
Great, a great answer there. Satisfied with that answer, David? Let's go on to Catherine's question. Her question is what is one thing that we should be incorporating more into our average Crossfitters programming to see the highest benefit to a Robeck capacity?

Chris Hinshaw:
I think the big thing is, is that we need to slow people down and a lot of times and Crossfit, and in classes, what we do is we focus on intensity and we're trying to drive adaptation in the direction of an intensity. We're trying to make people strong on trying to move faster. But in order to do that, we have to allow them a chance to recover. In between those efforts. Right. So you could take simple movements such as weightlifting and look at five by five back squat and we're giving them a passive rest in between those five reps. And the reason is, is because the focus is on the five repetitions and the load that we're lifting. If we knock them down to one minute in rest, then they will have to sacrifice the number of reps. Right. They won't be able to do five or they'll have to reduce the load that they're lifting and Crossfit,. We cannot control the amount of recovery time that we get in workouts. And so if we're always training around passive recoveries, that we're truly not prepared. What we should be doing a lot more of is telling athletes to move during recoveries at lower levels of intensities, essentially creating different gears than, you know, pedal to the metal. Let's just rock and roll a grip and rip. We should really be focusing on, you know, active recoveries. Maybe the next time you get into do a five by five back squat, maybe what you should be doing is a three minute 500 meter row.

Jason Ackerman:
I like that you talked a little bit about that on the podcast as well. And I think that's great stuff that we can utilize. Hosie wants to know about your Excalibur program.

Chris Hinshaw:
So the program is a I partnered up with Jesse Burdick, who is a really, truly best in class, in powerlifting. Very well known. I met him at a training clinic at Reebok about five years ago and I was so dazzled by Jesse Burdick and I ended up having dinner with him that night. And what was fascinating is that I was sharing my concepts and how I program my methodologies and just how I relate workouts into performances and just the way I assess athletes.

Chris Hinshaw:
Ironically, in lifting, he does the exact identical thing. It was really something that was seamless and it was easy to do. We communicated well and so we kicked around this idea that wouldn't it be something that if we did a study that basically said that, you know what, if you're an endurance athlete and you do small doses of lifting that, I actually can make you stronger. But I will also make you faster, let's say, in the movement of running. Likewise, I was saying, wouldn't it be interesting is that if I give small doses of running to a strength based athlete who is on a strength protocol, wouldn't it be interesting is if they got stronger while incorporating a running program. And so we talked about it. I talked to Crossfit, about it and the possibility of doing this study, which they didn't express any interest in doing it. And so then we said, let's just do it ourselves. Well, in any study. What happens is, is that you're going to have to pay people to do the study and you end up potentially risking or compromising your data. So we turned around and we said, you know what? Let's charge two hundred dollars a person. And what we will do is charge people so that their expectation on strength and endurance is as high as it's going to be. Right. And what we were looking for was the data and the improvement. And we're going to release the numbers. I mean, that's part of what I've always done is release the information, because I believe what we're doing in the Crossfit, space as a community is leading edge. Right. We are creating a level of fitness in a population of people that is extraordinary and in my opinion. And so we just completed the first round. We had five hundred people go through. So it's a huge data point and will publish what strength improvement numbers came up and what improvements came in their 400 meter time and the milestones.

Jason Ackerman:
Very good. Robin, blonde's to know what are your favorite running skill drills to add to Crossfit, warm ups to help improve athletes running technique?

Chris Hinshaw:
Can you say it broke up a little there?

Jason Ackerman:
What are your favorite running skills and drills to add to Crossfit, warm ups to help improve athletes running technique?

Chris Hinshaw:
So my number one had really, really I love doing things such as jump ropes beforehand. And I loved the idea of doing double under-resourcing the lenders and then dropping the rope and going for a run interval. It teaches people muscle memory. The foot strike when you're jumping rope is is landing on that mid foot, four foot strike and you get that that muscle memory when you go into a short interval. I really like that. If we took that a step further, I liked the idea of throwing in a ballistic exercise into a run. So something like a holding a plate overhead and doing an overhead jumping split lunch that forces a higher level of recruitment or a higher percentage recruitment of fast, which fiber's because of the increase in force. And then I love carrying that increased percentage of fast twitch fiber recruitment due to the ballistic into maybe even a sled push. Maybe what I'm doing is going into some kind of a short time domain sprint. It gives me a lot more value in the workout because instead of training a small percentage of fast which fighters, I'm actually training a higher percentage of those fighters. I like those ideas. I like the combination of a plyometric, such as like a jumping rope into a another movement as well as a ballistic into a another movement. Keep in mind that other movement must be very similar in the movement pattern.

Jason Ackerman:
From mich-. Is to help with mindset in workouts that are challenging. He has a few athletes that don't handle going into the pain cave very well.

Chris Hinshaw:
So this is where an athlete has to take responsibility in a workout. And I always tell people that the number one thing that you must do when you look at a workout is you have to assess as an individual how much time is it going to take me to do that workout. You also must look at that once you have that time domain. And if it's longer than three minutes, we know that we don't have enough energy to take it out fast in and hang on in anything longer than three minutes. We must pace workouts that are three minutes and longer because that's the way we've got to pace to maximize the consumption of our available energy. So knowing the time domain, that becomes critical because it defines our strategy. The other thing that we must do is we must identify the sticking point in every workout. So there is a sticking point in every workout. And what we must do is we have to prepare the body for that point so that we're not surprised. And a good example of that is, is Julie Foshay. Julie Foshay was my pick to win the games in 2015 before she broecker she folder Achilles.

Chris Hinshaw:
She the first workout I had or do was a four hundred for time. And she calls me afterwards and she says, I want you know, I did your 400, but it took me three attempts and I was shocked like the three attempts to do to 400. And she told me, she says, well, you know, I lined up on the first one and somewhere in the middle, you know, I had a panic attack. And I'm like, wow, a panic attack and she says it's not a real panic attack and I'm like, what did you do? She says, I you know, I calm down. And after about 30 minutes, I walk back up again. And I did the four hundred. And like you said, you did it three times. She's like, yeah. Number two, I have another panic attack. And so she tells me that she did the same protocol and she you know what? Calm down, warm back up and finally did the third time. And so I turn around and I asked her, I said so.

Chris Hinshaw:
Can I ask, where did that panic attack occur? And she told me it occurred at two hundred and forty meters in on that 400 and every workout. Like I said, there is a sticking point. And if you all think about if you had to run a lap around the track as fast as you possibly can, where in that lap? Around the track would you encounter that? Oh, moment. That moment where it's like, man, this thing is now all of a sudden it got real. Maybe it's like negative thought. Maybe it's you know, it's it's it's frustration. It's anger. But if you could make it stick in point close enough to home where you can finish. For me, my sticking point in a lap around the track is at 230 to 240 meters. Julie, interestingly enough, hers happened to these panic attacks, happened at 240 meters. And the reason it is, is because I asked her what was your game plan? And she says, what do you mean? So what was your game plan? A run lap? And she says, Chris, it's just a lap around the track. Well, that tells me she didn't have a plan. So imagine when she got to that sticking point at her. You know, she's breathing through her ears and blood's coming down her eyes. There is a mismatch between her perceived amount of pain and her actual pain.

Chris Hinshaw:
And the brain perceives that as we're in trouble. And it creates a phantom fatigue. Hers manifested into a panic attack. You must always assess. Where that is at that point and the magnitude of that intensity. If you don't, you will underperform. You see that as athletes, they just turn down the switch and they shut it down. So in every workout, it is that way. If you look at a 10 mile workout, you don't even need to know what the workout is at. What round do you feel that it's going to be? The point where if I can get past this, I'm close enough to home where I can finish. For most, it's round seven and eight. If you can get through that eighth round, I know I could finish nine and ten four laps around the track. You finish lap three, you're golden. You have to assess that point. The second part of that is, is that if I have athletes that elite that quit, they don't work hard. They define their high intensity based upon prior performances. I used your friend in three minutes. Now I do it too. Well, what makes you think you can't do it in 90 seconds? So I will write workouts for them. That forces them to go out fast in the beginning. Meaning I want you through that first round of friend and I want it done.

Chris Hinshaw:
And let's just give it a minute. If you don't, we're stopping and we're going to restart. We're gonna do 250 meter sprints on the track. And you know what? That first 50 meters better be under seven seconds or I'm stopping you. And we're restarted with Julie Foshay. One of the things that I did was as I broke workouts into four parts and I made part one, two and four all the same. The third part I had it made it really difficult, meaning I wanted her to focus our attention was she looked at that workout and said, oh, that third part, that is the hardest part in this workout. I have to focus all my attention on that. But in reality, what I was doing was as I was making it. So the fourth part was actually the most difficult because now she was gassed where she would have normally quit. And the thing is the sense part one and two are the same as four. They would sit there at four and go, you know what? I think I could do it because I just did it to earlier times. And so I would write workouts in that way for her. And it was highly effective. I pinpointed where I wanted her to focus our attention on in the workout because she wasn't good at it. I highlighted where the sticking point was.

Jason Ackerman:
So it's from a box perspective, a coaching perspective, it sounds like there's two good lessons there. One, maybe when you're briefing at the whiteboard, you can kind of ask your members, hey, we're in here. Do you feel like you're going to hit that? And once you get there, realize you're almost done and you know, you can make it. But then also secondly and maybe some things we don't often do are. Get people to go. We've I forget what we've called them before I learned it from Connor, from Connor Murphy. And they would be like, you have to hit 30 calories on the assault bike in two minutes or you have to repeat it at the end. So people would go balls out at first and then you're like, shit. Now I'm just in recovery mode for the rest of workout. But it's an important lesson to learn. Hey, you will survive.

Chris Hinshaw:
Right? I mean, that's part of it. So the other so when we talk about the sticking point, there's there's two sticking points. Normally in every workout, the one I just mentioned is metabolic. It's energy. Right. And what you're saying is, is that at that sticking point with one lap to go in, let's say a mile for time, with one lap to go, what you're willing to do is go above your lactate threshold, above your maximum sustainable pace for that last lap. Essentially, you're in that death zone intensity, but because you're close enough to the finish, you can bring it home. The other thing is, is that you have a muscular sticking point as well. So if there's a 10 round workout or a 10 round workout in each round has a different movement. And let's say movement number in and round number two, its thrusters for me. I would have to realize that I'm going to be struggling in that second round because my least favorite movement is thrusters that if I get through that now, I'm good to go and I'm only dealing with a metabolic sticking point. So there's two issues in every workout. And if you don't prepare your brain for those those those sticking points, you underperform. It's called the hazard score. Perceived exertion or perceived pain versus actual pain.

Jason Ackerman:
That's a that's a tough lesson to get people to understand, but I think it's super valuable. So let's move on to Matt's question. He wants to know your thoughts on nasal breathing. Aren't we supposed to be breathing that way?

Chris Hinshaw:
So, you know, it's interesting that there's everything in life, it seems like we get things super complicated and we bypass the the initial protocols that are our the most important.

Chris Hinshaw:
So first of all, I think nasal breathing has value it without a doubt it does have value. It just depends on when you are applying value in your overall fitness and whether or not it should take precedence over something else. Mean, we don't have unlimited free time. And so should that be your number one priority? I am more concerned with with athletes, intercostal and diaphragm strength and muscular stamina than I am with programming in nasal breathing and recovery through that mouth method. Most gymnasts and weightlifters fail because their their diaphragm and intercostal. So the weakest muscle in the body. They just haven't trained it. And those athletes also don't have good rhythm in their breath. You know, one of the things that our brain to know is, is when is that next dose of energy coming, you know? Is it a random breath? Meaning it's like if I am, you know, hyperventilating and then a long pause, breath, it needs to be consistent. Swimmers, without a doubt, have the best breathing rhythm. If you think about it, if I breathe on my right side every stroke, then you know what? My brain knows when that next dose of oxygen is coming. That next dose of energy.

Chris Hinshaw:
But if it's random, it will never settle my muscles because it doesn't know when the next dose of energy is coming. So training the rhythm or the consistency of the breath, that cycle of the breath. For example, I made a comment that Frazier knows if people are hyperventilating or not. He knows it by the movement of their chest. The rhythm of the breath is key. The other thing is, is that if we look at workouts and we're trying to breathe a nasal breathe, if we talk about intensity in terms of V02 Max, you cannot get a sufficient amount of oxygen through your nose on a intensity higher than 60 percent of your V02. So if we're sticking with nasal breathing, the problem is, is that I am forcing myself to hurt real bad and training myself to go slow. And in my opinion, that is not the highest and best use of an athlete's time. And so that's where I sit and I struggle with it because it has value and I practice it myself. And but if I'm looking at an athlete and I'm I'm I'm prioritizing their strengths and weaknesses that would come way down on the list.

Jason Ackerman:
So when you get a newer athlete, I think a lot of the coaches on here get the question of, OK, when do I breathe during this movement? And my response is typically at some point just breathe. So do you find it like a lifting movement or butterfly pull ups that you coach people debris that's specific times, especially at the beginner level? Or is it just, hey, get in some sort of rhythm regardless if it's concentric or eccentric going on?

Chris Hinshaw:
So the thing is, is that when the load gets heavier, the movement requires you to brace. You can't breathe through it. So it's mostly about awareness. So let's say that we're doing let's say we're doing twenty one thrusters and then we're about to go into a set of twenty one pull ups. Well we have to be aware of is is that are we in control of our intensity or out of control of our intensity. In the breath is the tell. Right. Our aerobics systems are oxygen. And so if we are hyperventilating in the beginning of a workout. And we have, you know, another 10 minutes to go then. We have to be aware of that hyperventilation and awareness is critical because we either in those moments we voluntarily slow down or what happens is we see it people hunched over and their hands on their knees or their involuntarily slow down. And that's the biggest mistake you see in Crossfit,, is that anybody who has their hands on their knees with involuntary slowdowns has already ruined their potential adaptation in that workout. They've ruined it.

Chris Hinshaw:
And why would we have athletes that are intentionally ruining or limiting their potential adaptation? It's a waste of their time. We need to train them to be aware of the breath, that the breath is the tell. And if you are not close enough to finishing, then you better get back in control of the breath so that the muscles, the muscles can settle. It's always funny to me. You see people shaking their arms out, you know, and it's because their muscles are oxygen starved. Why do you focus on getting back in control of your breath and then the muscles will then follow? It's the breathing, it's the oxygen, it's the aerobics system that is about awareness. That's the most important thing. So there are times like me. Ninety five pound thruster. I cannot breathe through. It's too heavy for me. So I hold my breath and I come out of those thrusters and I got to wait for a while because I am hyperventilating. Hyperventilating is a sign that your demand for oxygen is exceeding what it supply. What you can supply. It's about awareness.

Jason Ackerman:
Yeah, it's interesting. I just came from Jiujitsu Practice earlier and I was telling my partner, I listen to how hard you're going. And I go out. So when you're done, you're done. All right, let's.

Chris Hinshaw:
You're Done.

Jason Ackerman:
Let's go to Daniel's questions. He knows of your past. And he said he had a lot of ex runners in class and have long time running injuries. What's a good way to reintroduce them to running painlessly? I think because a lot of them are scared. They know what their body feels like. How do we get them back into running in a painless fashion rather than always just having them scale to rowing or biking or skier?

Chris Hinshaw:
Yes. So that's a really a tricky thing. So I work with a lot of master's athletes and and we have to provide options for them. That is something other than running like Rich Froning, for example. You know, he has no cartilage in one of his knees. And so we have to come up with with other ways to to help train that movement of running without actually running. And that's one of the reasons why Rich does a lot of standing biker workouts. He does a lot. Just as if you were riding a road bike or a mountain bike climbing up a mountain, you're out of the saddle and and you're in a much more upright standing posture. The other thing that's a value is, is running uphill and running uphill is it is much less stressful. So this is why the Air Runner and the true form are so valuable is because essentially on those two products, you're running uphill at around a 6 percent rate, meaning that your stride length isn't as long. You're not over striding, overreach, overreaching, overextending your front foot. Your impact is also softer because you're meeting the tread in a in a 6 percent rise. So we end up incorporating a lot of that type of training. The problem is it's not everybody has access to those.

Chris Hinshaw:
And so what we would typically do is have people do slow, you know, like intervals running up a hill for a two to three minute time domain with a slow walk jog down to the bottom. A lot of people, unfortunately, don't have those available to them as well. So what we'll end up doing is types of hybrid types of workouts. So, for example, we will do a lot of, let's say, a sled sprint, short time domain. And then what I'll do is I'll put them on a an assault bike. And what they're doing is they're just mostly using legs. So I am essentially in the pushing of the sled where there's a high forced demand creating a tremendous amount of lactic acid in the legs that running muscles. And then what I'm doing is I'm using that similar movement pattern in an active recovery, but doing it on a bike. So I will do, let's say, a 20 second maximal effort on the sled. And then what we'll do is we'll put them on the bike and they'll do a recovery for three minutes. And I get a huge amount of crossover with that value. I'll do multiple rounds. One creates the fatigue, the other clears the fatigue. Five rounds say 20 seconds on four minutes of active recovery.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, that leads right into Gretchen's question, and her question is, you know, she heard you talk about TVC presses with the handstand push up. We talked about it. Spencer Hendel. talks about it on an upcoming episode, actually, that we have going up, going out at next week.

Chris Hinshaw:
That's cool.

Jason Ackerman:
How do you choose what types of active recovery movements you choose to pair with the movement itself in order to increase the capacity?

Chris Hinshaw:
So we use that active recovery for two things. We do it to extend the amount of time an athlete is moving. So athletes have limitations, muscular stamina. And one of the reasons why we've run into muscular stamina problems is because Crossfit, athletes will typically do a passive recovery after an effort versus an active recovery. And so what we do is we incorporate a pavey C as a way of forcing an athlete to address a muscular stamina weakness. If we never challenge are our muscle fibers to recover on the fly, then what's going to happen is, is that as your fibers fatigued and your brain shuts, then often recruits the next batch. Eventually it's going to circle back down back to the original group in the fibers. Well, if you haven't gone long enough, those fibers will eventually have a muscular contraction failure essentially at cramping and you're done. That's why marathon runners run 150 miles a week. Is the athletes because they don't want twenty six point two to be a stamina issue? Now, the other thing that that Crossfitters and why we use these these clearance type workouts or active recovery is to improve an athlete's ability to clear lactate in a localized muscle group through performing a particular movement.

Chris Hinshaw:
So what we know is, is that as we move and if we move fast enough and long enough, a muscle will create lactic acid lactate and these fatigue causing properties. And if we keep moving long enough and fast enough, eventually it goes into our bloodstream. But we know in short durations it's localized. So if I create lactate in any movement, I want to combine that with a clearance movement that is something similar to the one that just created the fatigue for the purpose of accelerating the body or that muscles ability to clear lactate at a faster rate so that we can do more work. So it's twofold. We do lactate clearance workouts, TVC, to extend the length of the workout, right, to force the athlete to move longer in the active recovery. Right. Instead of sitting in a chair or standing around and doing nothing. And the other is, is that we're forcing the muscle that has just built up a tremendous amount of lactate. And we're teaching that muscle group on how to actively clear that lactate. So that. They actually can recover faster.

Jason Ackerman:
You mentioned marathon runners. I think at some point everybody on this call will deal with someone who is at the box but wants to train for a marathon.

Chris Hinshaw:
Yeah.

Jason Ackerman:
How a matt asked a question in line with that. What are some good ways that as coaches we can support their goal, you know, be it a marathon, a triathlon or something extended period like that, but maintain intensity and effectiveness in class?

Chris Hinshaw:
That's a great question. So, you know, we must as coaches, we have to look at someone that walks in the door and wants to get good. Let's say the marathon wants to get better. You have to look at the entire structure. Are there muscle groups that they are leaving behind or there's opportunity? Right. So like I comment about Rich Froning. He was one of the easiest athletes that I've ever had in order to make better. The movement running, if you ever did, was sprinting, right. He just sprinted all the time. I slowed him down and I developed a slow twitch, a Robert fiber's. And you know what? In 10 weeks, he went from a six minute mile down to five. Forty one, just running two times a week. It was because he'd left behind is slow twitch running muscles. So I just developed him. If we have a whole spectrum of fibers, we don't want to limit or ignore certain groupings of those fibers. We want to make sure that entire fibers spectrum is developed. If we look at a marathon runner and we look at what they've developed, you've got to assume that, you know, when their legs are optimized, just assume that. So how are we going to make them faster? Well, what about the other parts of the body, the other muscle groups that are involved in the movement are running other than the legs? What about if we through the protocols of Crossfit,, we improve their bodies ability, for example, this motion of when we run our arms? What if I have you on a rower and I actually can spend more time training this push pull right or an assault bike? Can I improve the aerobics capacity of those other muscle groups and their ability to clear blood lactate? So remember, when that runner is running fast, they're generating lactate in the legs that eventually spills into the bloodstream lactate shuttle and it's going to move into all throughout the body.

Chris Hinshaw:
It's just trying to find vacante, slow twitch, fiber fibers to burn it off. Well, what about through the protocols of Crossfit,? We improve the body's ability to clear lactate in these non-league muscles. Could that marathon runner run faster? Absolutely it can. So that's the that's the value proposition. You've got to look at the other movements and are they neglecting opportunity? The second part of that is, is that it's aging athletes. So I'm fifty six. And if you watch me run, I run still like I'm a kid. And it is because normally as we age, we lose range of motion and we lose lean muscle mass. And so you see older athletes from the age of 40 to the age of 70. Your stride length gets cut by 50 percent because of those two things. The way I can preserve mine is I work my range of motion. But I also work on strength. I am interested in maintaining my ability to generate power. And I do that by lifting heavy runners as they age. You know what they do? They go from doing five KS to 10 KS to marathons to ultras because they go from a long stride length to a short stride length because they have no ability to generate force and they have no range of motion.

Jason Ackerman:
I've trained a few people through marathons, not in such an ideal way like you are describing, but I typically have some articles like Greg Ahmanson, who had run 100 hundred miles through Crossfit, training and a few other people given a good places. We can direct our athletes to say, hey, you should still be using Crossfit, as your foundation and incorporating some running throughout the week, but you don't need to run a hundred miles to prepare for twenty six point two.

Chris Hinshaw:
Yes. So think so. Here's the thing is that Crossfitters works. General fitness athletes, right? We're not specialists. So at some point in time we have to to make a determination of whether or not a. An event such as a marathon.

Puts you into more of a specialized category, so let's say you wanted to train for an Ironman, a full Ironman. You're a specialist. You're. You're no longer you've got to pay attention to that specialty sport so that you don't underperform. In my opinion, a marathon, without a doubt is a specialty event. And you have to prepare the body for that event. But you also don't want to neglect the the added features that are going to keep you injury free and also balance out the development of the other non muscle or non use muscle fibers. You want to have a strength based program. You want to have a high intensity based protocol because the entire muscle fiber spectrum in a marathon is going to be taxed. And if you are not utilized in programming from a high intensity speed, strength, power standpoint, then part of your arsenal of fitness going into that event is going to limit your performance. And so I look at it where I I am concerned where athletes don't put a time on their feet. You have to do a longer run on the weekend to prepare the structure for what it's about to experience again.

Chris Hinshaw:
So it's not surprised. The problem is, is that how do you do that with a conventional marathon training program? You can't because what do they do on the weekend? Oh, it's it's 13 today. Next weekend it's 14. Then it's 15. It goes all the way up to 18. In my opinion, I like to do weekend runs and it's a three week rotating micro cycle. I like doing the long run as a one time event. The next workout, what I want to do is I want to break it up and do half that quantity of your long run where you're breaking and you're doing a progressive run. Easy to moderate to fast, let's say 3 miles, easy two miles, moderate, one mile fast. And then what I will do is take a long running distance equal to your long single day, but I would break it up into an 8 p.m. workout. Meaning I'm going to run eight miles in the morning and four miles in the evening.

Chris Hinshaw:
And for the body doing that, it's going to have the same cumulative effect. It just won't be so damaging. So I like rotating those every three weeks as I progress up my volume. And that's the way for a Crossfit, or two to stay because they stay healthy.

Jason Ackerman:
All right, I'm not going to take a too much more of your time. I'll give you an opportunity to talk about the aerobics capacity seminar and of course, your foundation. But I think it's a great question for a final question, because we're all about coaching and bonding with our athletes and cultivating a great experience. Yes. So Matt says you sound very personable, as you obviously are early on. Did you find that you gained trust with your athletes through building relationships or with delivering results?

Chris Hinshaw:
So it's without a doubt it's about results. You know, it's funny. I this boy so I met Camille in in June of 2013 and she had come to the track with Jason Khalifa. And at the end of this track, work out, she comes to me and she says, so you'll be my coach. And we go to the game and and we we we win. And you stay my coach. But if you you don't make me better, then I'd never call you again. And I was like, wow. Like, I was floored. I wouldn't even. I mean, this was in June of 13 and I was driving home and I'm like, wow, that's Froy. But then I got to thinking about it. It's like. That's actually the truth, that that's our job, our number one job is to deliver performance and you know, back in 13, it was easy to do those things. That's why I like working. Look, Matt Frasier, it's very challenging because the easy stuff was gone three years ago. And I always find that that if coach is able to hang onto an athlete for a long amount of time, they're still delivering performance. And that is an amazing coach because the athlete is the one thing that is the testament to the value of that coach. Just like our members, members of a gym, if you can retain them. It says something about the gym. That's why I when I go into a gym, I always ask, how long have you been a member here? Because that tells you how good the program is. And so at the end of the day, what everybody is looking for is performance. They want performance. And if you are able to deliver that, they'll come back the following day.

Jason Ackerman:
So at a box level for these guys, for us as coaches, when someone is contemplating leaving, should we immediately think, hey, we're not providing them with performance improvements and sit down and discuss their goals where they started and show them that they are, in fact, making improvements?

Chris Hinshaw:
B, I think that so I'll give you an example so. Sarah segments out or I coached her two years ago. She went to the games and she finished fourth that year in Madison, but that runs from Run. She finished a minute by Sam Briggs. It was a monumental performance. And then she goes onto a retreat with Sam Briggs. And then next thing you know, she calls and she says, I'm leaving Tennessee. And I was so bombed by that. It was like, wow. Like the amount of progress that was made in six months was was it was remarkable. And it really that it really hurt me as a coach. And I reflected a lot on that. And I think that the mistake that I made with her was I didn't. Make her take ownership in most of her training. That I would take on that responsibility, right? She would sentiment and results. I would assess the results. And based on the results, here's the next plan. I think that it is a huge mistake for coaches to not have athletes take accountability in the game plan. My job as a coach, I've realized, is to write amazing programming and that maximizes the the the value of the time the athletes willing to commit.

Chris Hinshaw:
Right. Maximize that adaptation in that most efficient way. I also must explain the purpose of workouts. Why? Why are we doing this? What's the focus? And so that they buy into it. But is the athlete's job to own that workout and to perform in that workout. And that's not my job. I'm not the guy that should be sitting there going, great job, because how do I know whether or not it was really that great? That's what the athlete should be determining. And if you're running a class with 30 people, there's no way on earth, you know, what all 30 are doing and whether or not they're working hard or easy. So I think it comes down to really athlete ownership and and and getting them to buy into the game plan and believing it. After they've decided to go like Sarah, when she said it's just like, you know what? All they could say is good luck to you.

Jason Ackerman:
Where does that begin in a class?

Chris Hinshaw:
I think it's comes at the start. I think that part is, is that a coach needs to be reinforcing that. Here's the game plan. This is what we're doing. This is the direction we're going on and this is why. But let's say, for example, we talk about those like we brought up that. That like a lactate goout, you know, an inactive recovery. What I would I would do is if we had a class that was doing let's say, you know, let's say we were taking a movement and we did twelve seconds. Let's say we did shoulder press. Right. So let's say we took a plate. We did twenty five pounds of twelve seconds of shoulder press, created fatigue and then a pdc. Forty eight seconds. Slow recovery, five rounds, no rest.

Chris Hinshaw:
Let's say that we did that all as a class and then next week we're gonna do the same workout. It's five rounds. Twelve seconds of shoulder press with a plate and then it's forty eight seconds with the. But now the difference is, is that the people who did that work out before, what we're going to tell them is this. You guys did this work out before. I need you to decide whether or not you want to work on your strength or you want to work on your recovery.

And if you decide that you want to improve your ability to recover and a shoulder press, instead of doing your shoulder press today with the p.v.c, I want you to get a five pound weight. And what you're going to do is a very slow, active recovery shoulder press with a five pound plate, because that's the direction of adaptation you want. You want to improve your recovery. If you want to improve your strength, your your ability to tolerate fatigue, then we're going to focus on the intensity side. So, Chris, you had twenty five pounds. I want you to get 30 pounds and you're going to do 30 pounds today, because that's the direction of the adaptation. Athletes, you guys pick which direction you want to go in. Meaning you get them involved in the workout and making a choice of which direction they want to go in. Because that's how you get them to take ownership. We could also do FRAND for the sole purpose of doing FRAND to create blood lactate. And now the coach is gonna write three movements on the board at the end of FRAND I. You're going to accumulate two minutes of one of these three movements at a very slow active recovery pace to train the body how to pull lactate out of the bloodstream and consume it as a fuel in one of these three movements.

Chris Hinshaw:
So you have a choice after fran. You're going to do two minutes of active recovery PDC deadlift, active recovery floor press. Active recovery flow. Shoulder press. Right. There are three choices and you're going to pick one of those and get them involved. My point is, is if we are always pushing and showing people what to do, they take no ownership. Back to Sarah segments daughter. I was teaching her transitions and she tells me I can't do a swim to run transition and get my shoes on. I have to wear socks. And I told her, I said, okay, so if you wear socks, how fast can you do it? And she says, I don't know. I probably can put them on in 30 seconds. And so I took off my shoes and I set them up. You know how to do it. And I'm good at this. Right. I could get both shoes on wet in under five seconds and start running. And the mistake I made was, as I should have gone head to head against her and did it my way, against her way and been 200 meters down the road and said, OK, so are you willing to tolerate blisters? Or do you want to make up 30 seconds of time? That's the difference if if we're always pushing versus involving, then there's a different level of connection.

Jason Ackerman:
I love it. It takes me longer to put on my shoes every morning than that. So I'm going to have to get a try. Get over.

Chris Hinshaw:
I have a question for you. Can you put your shoes on and tie them while standing?

Jason Ackerman:
That sounds like another wager for me and Todd. I wear Velcro shoe laces, so, yes. No, I don't like it. I will. I will definitely challenge myself to do that. Is that is that a sign of the ultimate athlete if they can put their shoes on while standing as if so, maybe.

Chris Hinshaw:
That's a sign. That's a sign of old age or young age.

Jason Ackerman:
Meaning you can do it standing because you have to bypass. Flexibility.

Chris Hinshaw:
I don't know, I think I'm still young. That's you know what? I checked that every now and then I'm like, OK, I still got it. Yeah, you got to put your socks, socks and shoes and tie them standing both feet.

Jason Ackerman:
All right, group, you heard it from the man right there. That's the challenge. That's the homework for the week. We're going to see posting that in the group. Chris, for you, get off. Please tell everybody where we can. A you know, Crossfit, has changed their model. It's no longer special because it's a preferred course where we can find out a little more about that. And of course, the the ultimate trial run is coming up, actually, wunderbar. She was on her way to Pearl Harbor right now, but she also wanted me to make sure you knew she was volunteering Tuesday and helping out with the kids. And one of our members, Bethany Omnes Crossfit, Koppa, run on Kuai. So we have a lot of ties to your foundation to tell everybody about those two things.

Chris Hinshaw:
So, aerobic Capacity Dot.com is a Web site and yes, a Crossfit, did change things up. They went away from these specialty courses and now calls it a preferred course, essentially giving the preferred preferred course providers more autonomy. I mean, we're able to do a lot of things that we were not able to do in the past, such as changing content of the course, the structure, the flow of the course. One of the things that I do with my courses, I teach all of them and our sport is evolving in an incredible rate. And the content of these court says should be evolving at the same rate. For example, pacing, you know, pacing like we talked about earlier. It's a huge buzzword in the sport. But in 2013, I was bashed for pacing, providing people rest in intervals. I mean, how great was it that rest- was in an open workout, right? That Crossfitters recognizing the value of these things. But we as instructors, we have to evolve at the tip of the spear. And that's what I like about it. I am always putting cutting edge things that I learn from athletes that I coach. And that's what's part of this course. I do. I love the course. It's a one day course and we're loading more courses. We just loaded three more courses today. But there's a bunch more in Europe and throughout the US is coming up. So we're really excited about that. I've been playing around also. We're putting that course online just because there's a lot of demand for it. And honestly, I'd like to do a level, too.

Chris Hinshaw:
I've talked to Conor Murphy about, you know, co coaching that with me. I would like to move into other spaces of it. We've got about 3000 people that have already gone through the course. And so there's decent numbers that are out there. And if I did an online one, then we can do a more intensive version of it. I believe that there is in this sport a Crossfit,. There's going to be consolidation at some point. And I think that the value at these gyms where I go, it's the coaches that are the smart ones, the ones like the people that are spending time in our day to listen, these ones that want to learn. That's where I think the action is long term. Those are the ones that are going to flourish and dominate. And there's the ones that are going to make the money. And that's what I want to do, is I myself, I want to drive into that next layer of knowledge, too. I mean, for my own sake. So that's yet again. Robert Capacity, EW.com, I'd like I said I what we've talked about. I dive into that detail on the courses. I really genuinely love it. It's a true experience. And I just did one in Charleston, South Carolina. What a great time that was. I love the course. And then that whole day for me is a treat. The the Kaila Foundation, the ultimate Hawaiian Trail run, that that is something coming up the middle of September every year. I think this is the sixth year. I've done it every year. And it's the cause that that Heidi, my wife and I contribute into.

Chris Hinshaw:
And it's not just financial contribution. It's it's really about time. And I have always given in to charity. And I don't know about everybody here on the on the on the call, but charity is an interesting thing. You know, you always hear about it and people doing things, you know, charitable contributions and things. But the key, the number one thing that you can do is the Mercer self in it and commit time. I can't I can't even begin to tell you the level of satisfaction and happiness. And I can't I can't describe the happiness from coming out of it, because let's face it, that cause over there is is awful. And it's so sad and it's a huge bummer. But when you contribute time for people that genuinely need help, that level of feeling, that happiness. I just I really encourage you not just in the trail run, but go find something. If you don't have something where you can immerse yourself into it and the back end has been changed, it's changed our lives and in a good way, it makes me want to give more time and to be more generous and be more open and caring. Yeah. It's been a wonderful thing for me as heart wrenching as it is. And and. Yeah. Check it out. And if you could ever make it over to that event, these kids in the war zone that they're in is it's beyond description of what's happening to them. And the Hawaiian families are going to disappear from drugs, alcohol and suicide and murder.

Chris Hinshaw:
They're going to disappear. And it's happening on a rapid rate. That whole culture. And it's it's. Yeah. The dynamics of how it's happening is is just it's it's remarkable how awful it is. But like I said for me and Heidi, it's it's incredibly enriching. And I really encourage you not just that, you know, charitable foundation, but any foundation if you immerse yourselves. I just it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Jason Ackerman:
Well, hopefully this is up there as one of the most rewarding things you've ever done. Just under giving back to charity. But speaking for our entire group and and Todd and Kate, I'll be on the call. We just want to let you know, we truly appreciate your time. And I learned a ton and I've seen you talk and I look forward to hearing you talk again a lot in the waves. I don't look forward to incorporating any of that running that you talked about into the workout. But as long as it helps me, Todd, in the twenty twenty open, I'm happy.

Jason Ackerman:
So thank you so much, Grill. Thank you so much. Always good to man. Always good, buddy. A bunch of our people are telling you the sea on the boat. So thank you, guys. I love it. I love. But thank you, everyone. All right. See you, guys. Bye.

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