119. Jason Rule | Driven Nutrition

119. Jason Rule | Driven Nutrition

On today’s episode, Fern sits down with Jason Rule of Driven Nutrition, the supplements coming that works with affiliate aswell. While Jason owning  GNC found that company supplement would cut back on raw product and saying it was to “improve” the formulas when in reality they were cutting back to save money. During this process, Jason realised he knew so much about these raw products and how they should be put together that he discided to start making the product himself. Fern and Jason discuss the problem with the supplement industry and how Driven Nutrition is different. Making it affordable and educating affiliate not just on supplements but on how to sell anything in your affiliate.   

Timestamp: 

(2:11) The Problem with Supplement Industry
(8:38) Filtering Thought the Supplement  jarg
(10:46) Bad Supplement
(15:29) Should People take Supplement?
(21:20) Eating for health vs performance
(29:30) Affiliates biggest mistake
(40:50) More than just Protein and Prep Workout

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@jason_rule
@drivennurtition
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Fern:
All right, everybody, welcome back to the best hour of their day. Fern here with my friend Jason Ruel from Driven Nutrition. So if you are an affiliate owner or even just an athlete and you've been in the Crossfit, really for any amount of time, supplements is a conversation that comes up and we work with Jason Driven Nutrition. Full disclosure, I've worked with a ton of different companies over the years and I think this is going to be similar to my previous podcast with Matt Aubrey Zio. And the goal here is education for the listeners about how this works and how to make it beneficial. But I know you're busy, man. I know you have tons of phone calls with affiliate owners, stuff like that. So I appreciate your time.

Jason Rule:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad to be on. I haven't I haven't a chance to kind of flesh out ideas as opposed to being one on one with an affiliate, as always. Pretty nice. So I appreciate you letting me come on pod.

Fern:
Jason and I were were chatting before hit record. And I think it's hysterical that use you do not listen to podcasts like you just don't do it.

Jason Rule:
I know. No, I don't. I don't. I listen to a lot of books. I read a lot of books. But like in the instance of this, like, I try not to listen to the podcast. I'm going to go on is because I just I wanted to be a very natural flowing conversation. And I found it as odd as it sounds. The less I prepare, the more I enjoy the process and hopefully get more out of the conversation both ways.

Fern:
Well, I think it probably speaks to preparation, meaning like you don't have to prepare, like this is legitimately what you do day in and day out and that you live it. That would be like me having to prepare, like do this big, you know, study session before I walk into a seminar on the weekend. Like I have to do that. I'm probably not ready to teach a lecture or what. I'm good to go. I do I do some polishing and review how I want to say things because because that's a course. But you want to walk into it every day. I'm not super worried about how I'm going to teach the squad. I not do that. Right. Right.

Jason Rule:
It just comes out. It comes down to reps.

Fern:
So. Is it even fair to say that this supplements in general has like a sleazy feel to it?

Jason Rule:
Oh, absolutely. I like. I really don't like this government industry at all. And is it that I've been in it for 20 years, 20 some odd years of promotants and gentes and then fifteen years ago start the first brand? So I would have a product that that I could control not only the rise, but the price to the people that we're buying from my stores. But I think the biggest problem I have with this government industry other other than what people I'd always point out like being sleazy bad sales is. And I'm going to try to. I'm going to try to put this in words on my somewhere around it. The problem is there's a lot of some companies try to make themselves out to be the hero and they're not. It's there. They're like, we're a guide for affiliate's. We're a guide for affiliates to teach and share with them our products and how it can help their business. Now, it can help with numbers and so many. I feel so many stubbly companies. They're like, hey, we're the greatest thing since Jesus juice, like, hey, love us because we're so about us. I mean, they're products, they're commodities, they're high grade raus that you put them in a bottle that benefit athletes. And we offer that as a as a product or service to our affiliates and directly to our customers. So I think I think that that's that's been my main issue is in trying to find trying to become comfortable with my guide as my role as a guide of Trumans, not the hero in the story. It's the Crossfit, Gym's. It's the chance to work with the members and the coaches and help to build a community. That's that's that's something that I've been working on in terms of being more comfortable being on podcasts like this, because I'm not a fan of putting myself forward or even a company like even a true story. But this is this is one of our gems that we work with. In fact, my home gym that I enjoy workouts like I I don't I'm not much for branding. I'm a shitty owner, I guess.

Fern:
Well, how do these shitty owner your business wouldn't be operating. But it's a it's a it's kind of a weird dynamic because the vast majority of people in the Crossfit, gym use some supplement, like whether it's a pre-workout or a protein supplement or some other vitamin or some degree like that. And it's like I think about the number of people that use supplements, but also pair that with like how people feel about supplement companies in general is a really, really odd pairing. Like, it's just it's just weird for me to think about it. Like everybody is like this is this is horrible. I'm gonna go buy that right now.

Jason Rule:
Well, there's a lot of there's a lot of brand loyalty to it because once once the customer connects with the brand, it really comes down to people like us do things like this. So once once you wear a Reebok Crossfit, jacket, like that's gonna be the jacket that you wear. So and that's just something that I try to try to teach to affiliate's is talk about the brand and whether it's our brand or anything else. I tried to make sure that when I had these conversations that the stuff that we teach is really agnostic. It's not driven specific, I'm going to say driven just because that's my company. But the stuff we teach, you know, really comes down to if you can promote a brand and you tell your members what you believe they should take, why you take it yourself and then let them know how it tastes and giving them opportunity to taste it. They're gonna buy it. And then before long, just like everybody in the gym is running around the Nano's or metcon, like people like us do things like this. So that's that's the breakthrough that I think at a lot of affiliates have to get through is owning that internal branding that they have to go through. You know, the funny thing is they did it with projects, but projects was an overpriced commodity that they couldn't make a margin on. So we kind of came in to fill that gap a little bit with the best of both worlds, a premium priced product that is for the main masses. It's not just an $80 bag of protein

Fern:
We'll get into the price a little bit later because that that is something you should take into consideration. But before that, look at how. How do you how does one get into the supplement world? Like how? Like where you work in a GNC one day and you're like, I can just make I can get this stuff made. I'm doing my self

Fern:
That's a good question. So I I own the GNC is that I had. But there was a brand that built itself up inside of the franchise community. We used to have a very close eye on what we did because I've been out of it for a long time. For. There is a brand that came in that was exclusive, the GNC franchisees and we built the brand up and then it went. It's got to where it started cutting back on raws. I was actually on the phone with my account manager for my stores and he was coming to me and saying, hey, we're reformulate this product. And they started going down the list of raw and. Versus the old one. And each each from sitting there listening to it, I'm like, no, that's that's actually not as effective as a raw ingredient. It's actually cheaper. So I'm clicking these off in my head. And then he said, well, the bad news is, is since we're upgrading this formula, we have to raise the price above 50 per unit. So, you know, this kind of sucks because everything you just said about the formula chain change was it was a lie in like if you would have called me up and said, look, here's the thing. We're not we're not able to maintain business at the margins that we're at with the raws that we're using. So we're going to have to change the raws. This is how we're going to position these raws and how are you going to have those conversations? Because this product as it stands, is going isn't available anymore. But, you know, it didn't lie to me. So we're done. So the owner ended up reaching out to me. And because we were one of the early stores to bring it into the community, they said, what's up, Jay? What are you doing? And I just told him and he said, well, what do you what do you plan on doing? And I said, well, you know, I'm talking to Sam. I realized I actually know what the hell I'm talking about. I can break down raws. So really, I guess when it comes down to it, I have to find suppliers in the US that make spectral analysis for US GMP manufacturers and then I can start building my own products. So that's what we did.

Fern:
That's really cool. And I think. At least for me personally for a long time. And still to this day. That's a major disconnect. And hopefully what some people can walk away with here is we can talk about sales and all that stuff. But really what I would like people to walk away with is a little bit of education. Like how do I personally like, absent of any brand, make a good decision on whether this is an appropriate product. Right. So you're talking not raus. And I mean, some people are probably thinking about raw meat, but like you're talking about ingredients. So. Right. Where like where does one go? Because essentially when I look at the back of most supplements, there's 18 syllable words, most of which I'm not even sure in the English language and I'm overwhelmed. So I result to just reading the front of the label, which is this will make me awesome. And I say, well, it says that on the label, so maybe I'll just trust them. So where does one start? Is or is there like filtering through all of that?

Jason Rule:
You know, the biggest thing to look at is looking for the GMP logo on products, good manufacturing practices. That means that it's an FDA inspected facility where it's manufactured. It means that the Roar's are inspected. They go through a spectral analysis, make sure that they match previous batches to where everything is what it is. And then the raw product is basically a culmination. The finished product is a combination of all of the raws that go into it. So it really comes down to a lot of like companies like glass door, stuff like that. They'll test the raw product. And we've we've batch tested our products. We send them off to get them batch tested. But to me, that's not as important as testing the raws before they even go into the product is what that's doing is that's taking a batch and sending it off to where it's already inside of the consumer's hands. So by testing each of the raws before it goes into the product. Unfortunately, a lot of that comes down to. The trust and who is running the company and whether or not they have their hands on that wheel, GMP is a good one in terms of from a consumer standpoint, making sure that get done and and sticking to that is as vital.

Fern:
Corser. So that actually brings up a completely off topic, but something I think is who has gotten. How shall we say, dinged for performance in handling enhancing supplements and and and their excuses? I took a bad supplement. Now I'm sure that can happen. However, I'm not fully educated on the supplement industry and how things flow through that that supply chain and how and how reasonable that is. But I just find it hard to believe that there is a person injecting testosterone into pre-workout in one of these factories somewhere.

Jason Rule:
Yes. And that's so I would say probably one out of a thousand, maybe a valid concern. And usually that's going to be you can take a look at the labeling. You take a look at a lot of times that company and be like, hey, this looks like it was printed on mom's Hewlett Packard. Don't take that product. So that but to your point, every time every time an athlete says that, I think, oh, shit, here we go again because. It always amazes me, like what benefit would it bring me to put testosterone or any other product in one of my products? Like, even if you take it early, it's not going to work. Right. Like that. Like even if even if I were to add that it's not going to create the results you want. And yeah, I mean, I'm putting myself up to where potentially go to prison for selling a dirty product. It's so often just a line of bullshit. And my opinion, like people again popped.

Jason Rule:
I've heard I've heard people claim like athletes, like NFL, stuff like that. A drug test is an IQ And if you fail it, you fail it. It's because you didn't. The athletes that that aren't in the know are the ones that are going to fail it. It's because they're taking supplements or they're taking products, whether it's dietary supplements like SAHMs, which I am absolutely against, or they're taking real drugs. Yeah. They just didn't time the off season or the off cycle. Right.

Fern:
Anybody who wants a real eye-opening education, go watch the documentary Icarus on Netflix about the Soviet Union and how they did that. And it is absolutely an IQ test. It's like if you have the right doctors and they know how to cycle on and off and they know what dosages should be, it is virtually impossible. And what's interesting about that is it's it's even funnier that people pop because most of these doctors and these companies are well ahead of testing protocol. Yes. They're like two, three years out.

Fern:
And testing is always catching up, which is why we see, you know, like I think was maybe last year or the year before where they pulled a huge patch of samples from the 2012 Olympics and just eliminated entire field of athletes. Oh, yeah. Like we didn't see these metabolites before. But it's I think it's funny, too. And I agree with you. It's a lot of bullshit because you see, you read the article and they say, oh, it's a taint. It was a tainted batch of pre-workout, a protein or whatever it is. Right. And then and then you read a little deeper into the article and you look at what they popped for. And it's just impossible that that somehow showed up in that in that sample. Why do you even know what that sample is like? You are completely uneducated right now. I'm like, that's not how that works. No one. Right. So, yeah, I'm just like I just own. Just say, yep. I was trying to I would respect you much more if you said I really wanted to win. So I cheated. OK. You're still good. My book. I get it. You made a mistake,.

Jason Rule:
Right?

Fern:
But anyway, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that because you're more educated on it. On it.

Jason Rule:
That's that's the first time I've always, ever been asked that publicly. So that is that is how I feel. And I'm always like, I should probably get to rub some people the wrong way. Well, that's the fact that if you play if you play that game, prepare to get popped. And the other side of it, the other side that I don't think that people realize this is. Naming, naming a supplement company falsely opens yourself up to massive litigation. I mean, for the rest of your life. And if it's like it's done, I believe it's done like defensively, like, oh, no, no, it wasn't me. Like, no, that was you. So in their court opinion, that's not the same as what actually happens professionally in terms of courts and what actually takes place after somebody makes that false accusation. So there's consequences behind just losing respect inside the community.

Fern:
Yeah. And listen. Court is not fun, so nobody wants to do that. V which so which which kind of brings the larger question is, is should people take supplements? You know, I could. So I'm imagining an affiliate owner and probably myself at some point in my affiliate was just like, listen, if they just eat Whole Foods, they'll be fine. Like they'll do it. And we don't even recommend to people take supplements. You know, Crossfit, is a health company. And I'm not saying that supplements are bad, but I'm also saying that like. They shouldn't suppliment, shouldn't proceed quality food. And in that conversation, how do we start to bridge that gap from. OK. Yes, we're eating Whole Foods, but at some point, like supplements may be in order. Who should take them? Should they take them? And how do you start to have that conversation?

Jason Rule:
I think coming to come to terms with the acceptance of the more. The more the more polarized you get in terms of whether it's exercise and diet, anything else you're going to you're going to ostracize, you're not going to be able to service a certain type of community and kind of realizing like it does have its place. The reason they're supplements is because they're supposed to supplement a good diet. It is hard to get enough protein, especially women like that, the protein that they need to get, they're just not used to eating that. Like if they've been athlete for a long time, they they've started training in their bodies to eat a lot more chicken, a lot more beef to where they can raise their branches and amino acids. And the protein will take. But you take just a the off the street or a normal guy off the street. They don't they they have they have they're used to things being sweeter. They're used to things. MANUELL That salt here, they need that type of taste to be satisfied with what it is they're eating. So if you take someone like that and you say the only way for you to live your life is to be an extreme paleo athlete, that's not gonna be a lifestyle that most likely the majority of them are going to be able to follow. So it's that 80/20 rule. How do we how do we not focus on the 20 percent of the athletes that are gonna follow that type of diet? How do we increase our protein intake for these 80 percent that are needing something sweeter, that need something more satisfying? That isn't as much of a job as eating 20 or 30 grams of chicken because that's a damn job, especially if you're gonna do it the way you should be doing it two or three times a day. So like I challenge anyone listening to this could go and try to increase your protein intake by 90 grams a day.

Fern:
Yeah, that's that. No, I come from a diet from. Yeah. That now becomes like part of my job.

Jason Rule:
Yeah. Yeah. And it and inside of five days you're gonna just be miserable. Now the nice thing is after about two, two and half weeks, the habits gonna kick in. You're just gonna get used to you eating that. So it's not gonna be as much of a job, but your old lifestyles, your old habits are gonna kick in. Now you say, okay, well, here's three protein shakes that you can do that with. It's going to taste like dessert. Now it's not hard. So the protein is going to increase the recovery for that athlete. That's going to decrease their appetite. So their likelihood of eating a shitty meal is a lot lower. So it's it's finding that the lifestyles that that we like the way inside of Crossfit, and it's not so much as what it used to be, you know, five, six, seven years ago. Understanding like we have to be able to service those other people that aren't going to be as extreme as we are about it.

Fern:
On that note. So I can I can imagine the questions that are popping up now, because you're talking about sweeter and saltier, a lot of people. Their argument is like, listen, there's just a bunch of sugar in those products so that people eat more of them. So is is something that tastes good? Is that something that I should be cautious of? Because there is sugar. I mean, we all know sugar is not good for you, you know? Not natural sugar. So explain that to people. Because our our products out there were like people smash them because quite frankly, they're delicious and they are full of sugar. So.

Jason Rule:
Well, then there's a lot of drinks out there that aren't Crossfit, gyms that I I always like asking gym owners like, does that actually do anything? No. No, it doesn't. OK. But speaking specifically, the carbohydrates and sugars, like that's that's your body's fuel. That's what we need as athletes. And so many times I remember I was seven years guys sat next to George Stevens at a CrossFit competition and we're both sat down eating eggs and onions and from a paleo wagon. This stuff's amazing. Like you guys eat like this all the time. It's like you had to get shredded. Yeah. If you want to beat everybody out here, eat like a bodybuilder. Like the athletes don't. Athletes don't eat think that way. You know, find something that works group body type that you can consistently do. And and pay out over and over again and like increase your carbs.

Jason Rule:
I don't know if that was your specific question, but I think that as a community from Crossfit,, the education of, hey, you need carbs to live. Your brain needs carbs. Your muscles needs carbs. Like, I think pass that. What was your question? Something different than that?

Fern:
No, it was more along the lines of. Of taste. You know, people look at taste and like, well, listen, this tastes good. Which means there must be something in here that is not ideal.

Jason Rule:
All right.

Fern:
It's just like. Right. But is that, you know, put on your on your nose. So like Dr. Zoe Hakam, who spoke at the train or some of this year, you know, she used to be vegan and she's very much on the, you know, with vegans are full of crap train at this point. And she outlined in pretty great detail that, you know, like the. So the body needs glucose. Right. So if we're talking about as far as fuel source, the. Right. Which you outlined pretty with a pretty strong argument is there are no essential carbohydrates like there's essential proteins.

Fern:
Now, that does that's not to suggest that carbohydrates have no place and have no benefit. Right. And I think they're I think kind of alluding to what you said earlier is that we can't it's not a zero sum game. It's not like what I'm just going to eat this carnivore diet, be able to do, you know, high intensity workouts for, you know, for months on end to be able to perform well. And I think I think there is trying to get people to understand there's this balance, but also acknowledging that to some degree and how you feel about this. I love to hear your thoughts on it. In my experience, as some to some degree, eating for performance can very much no longer resemble eating for health.

Jason Rule:
That's an interesting perspective. I would. I'll use me as an example on this. OK. So, you know, I'm a forty five year old guy. I was a college athlete by the track. I was never an amazing athlete. I never had potentially one desire to go Crossfit, games. I've done regionals one time.

Fern:
Hey, that's good enough for most people.

Jason Rule:
Yeah, but I I I try to get to where I can perform the my life. Like, you know, my wife and I, we've got four kids. 19 15, 10 and 6. So my job is keeping up to them. My job is running this company and going to the gym three to four times a week and enjoying, you know, if I if I if, you know, last week I did a 5K RO 500 metres sprint road for time, like just to see what I could do. And yesterday I went in. You know, I don't think I broke a sweat. So my eating perfect. My version of eating or performance performance is finding something to wear. I feel good about my clothes, but the way that I am, I have my threshold that I'm comfortable with. And you know, I'm not starving. So I think everybody's threshold in terms of what they're eating to perform for is different. And that's I think that that's where some owners, some coaches get in trouble with this, because their version of eating to perform is to be an elite athlete. And we're seeing that in Crossfit, as it is. You know, that the elite athlete gyms, they're not the ones that are thriving. It's the ones that are focusing on the business and wellness.

Jason Rule:
You know, health and actually focusing intentionally and different aspects of their business as opposed to, hey, how do we create some really bad as human beings? So that's that's that's my response to that.

Fern:
No, I think I think it's a fair response. I just I would agree with you that, like, there's people that are taking an anomaly, which we can.

Fern:
I think we can call across the games athletes at this point an anomaly. They are not they are absolutely an outlier in almost every way, shape and form. And then we're applying that practice to the average person that comes into my gym, which means they need to be on if they're they're gonna work out, whatever, six times a week that they need to bump up their carbohydrate intake, which. Right. Maybe. Maybe not. But I think in large part, I think with a big air of this happening is these discussions are being had in the absence of other data points like what are your guys, what's your body composition? What is your blood profile look like? And they're just like, you should take the supplement to which one of my why? Like we have some sort of reasoning behind that. Like you just don't tell people to take it. Like, if you're right. Why would you take vitamin D if you're not deficient in vitamin D?

Jason Rule:
Right.

Fern:
So, yeah. I think we're I think we're aligned. I think we agree. So let's get into some of the supplements. So a lot of gym owners. And again, this now we're gonna start kind of go down the road of what Matt and I talked about from Forever Fears, which is we know people are taking supplements, whether we like it or not. Whether you agree with it or not, like it's happening. The supplement industry is a billion dollar industry. And I've actually come to this weird realization that for some people, supplementation is the entry point to eventually what looks like a good diet option of supplements.

Jason Rule:
Absolutely.

Fern:
So how do we start? How do we start to and that would be a weird place to live your life, which is I live my life like we want to eat Whole Foods. We want to do that. But then trying to pair that with the reality of the fact that like people are not going to do that. So what am I married to my marriage to getting them there eventually? Or am I very to like, am I going to die on this sort of like, you know, meats and potatoes, you know?

Jason Rule:
Right. Right. And, you know, that's one of that.

Jason Rule:
That's the tough thing about what we have as a company is we have so many different products. You know, twenty two or twenty three different SKUs of protein alone, you know, adding to that bone broth, Chicken Islip. We tried it since everybody is different, like you have different goals. You know, some of like a Brook Wells has different goals than you and I even. So each body is different. You know, a woman that hasn't worked out for ten years that comes and needs to lose 40, 50 or 100 pounds. They have different goals. They have different needs. But there is some. There is. I can tell you that 1 percent in my experience with retail and supplements. There is some validation that if somebody buys a product or they buy a membership to a gym, they're going to validate that previous decision by making sure that it's used optimally, whether by showing up to the gym, taking their protein after their workout. So it's not like you said, the zero sum game. There is no silver bullet for that. I mean, it's not just diet. It's not just an exercise routine. I Crossfit,. It's not just supplements. It's a combination of all of them creating that synergistic effect where things come together and it just becomes part of what they do. And it helps them find their natural balance, their threshold, which which, you know, like like you said, I have found in terms of mind, I'm in terms with I'm never gonna be an athlete. No one's gonna ever look at me and be like, holy shit. Did you see how much weight Jason just lifted? Like, no, that would never happen unless unless I'm working out with my 10 year old, then she maybe impresses.

Jason Rule:
But finding those things and having those things available as a gym and even though it may not be 100 percent in tune of like, hey, this is how you live, your life skills is a good example of a lot of gyms that don't want anything to a super loss. And I'll I'll ask them. OK. So are your members buying supplements that are strictly sweetened with stevia? Well, yes. OK. So how much of this have you sold in the last couple months to $300 dollars worth and you've got 150 members? There's no way. So what's actually happening is. And I'll put this to them and they'll put a survey out here percent of the time it comes back pay. They'll send the survey out. Hey, are there any supplements you guys are taking beyond this brand that only has natural sweetener? It always comes back like they're always blown way. Like I had no idea. People are taking this. And a lot of the reason is, is because if somebody has such a hard liner and they're always like, no sucrose, no sucrose, no. TSOUKALOS Your membership is going to they're going to find things that fit their palate, are going to get sold something in a store that may not be a good fit for them or they're gonna get targeted on Facebook, Google ads or something like that, and they're going to buy it. And if they like it and it tastes good and that's something that they can reward themselves after they get done, work out, they're going to keep taking it. So kind of a lot of affiliates are kind of detaching from that mindset of, OK, I understand my market is going to be buying this product like this. So what's a product line that I can offer as the best alternative? Guys, this isn't something I'm going to put on my body. But if you're dead set on taking the supplement, that taste amazing. We feel that this is the best option for you. And what's amazing is as we have we have natural proteins. We still probably two thousand to one driven way over natural way. Wow. Not an exaggeration.

Fern:
That's crazy.

Jason Rule:
And take a look at what spot we're in. I mean, we're like we're in we're in the space.

Fern:
That's incredible.

Fern:
So I think we've covered the why. Right. So why would I sell supplements? Well, because people are buying them anyway, so why not be somewhat of the authority to help guide them into making good decisions? I think I think people are on board with that. I don't. Not many people are are gonna be super resistance that I think. Now, more often than not, the question is what and how, so what? And sometimes I think it's important to to shed light on. Not necessarily how to do it right, but what is wrong, like what should you absolutely not do? So what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see affiliate owners do when buying, promoting, selling supplement products?

Jason Rule:
Man, that's a wide open question. You're right. A lot of times that's what finding things that aren't the right fit. Like you get somebody in there that needs to lose 50 or 80 pounds. post-White probably isn't a great option. Selling something that's pure sugar is a really shitty option, even though like, yeah, great, you need to like it and recover after you get. Working out your body can actually convert proteins like gender repair. Like no, that's still like just don't do that, you know. So in a pre-work that has 500 milligrams of caffeine to Crossfitters like you've tried to do that or something. The goal is to keep your heart rate down. Right. So finding those products. It's this. It's not that. And then as you're having conversations and that's you know, you you use the word authority and authority on supplements. And I think that a lot of times that will hold that mindset. There's a lot of affiliates. I kind of have that mindset like I need to become an authority on it. Before I introduce it, become a conduit for information. It shouldn't be the sphere that all information goes through. You should kind of be the hub that the information circles around. So when members do have a question, they come to you, the hub, and then you you know, I'm an idiot. I don't have that answer. Like, that's the truth. Let me go look for you. You you as as a coach, as an owner.

Jason Rule:
A lot more qualified to search for this. It's not that for that athlete. So go find that information. Then you bring it back to the athlete. You have that conversation and then that reinforces their decision to a next time they go to a local retailer and they try to get sold $300 worth of crap. No, no. I'm actually going to go talk to Jason because he directed me in the right direction last time. So I. I would one of the mistakes I see a lot of times is affiliates try to be that central point for all information. So they have to know it before they even start. It's like a Crossfit,. And it's like an athlete saying, I'm going to get in shape before I start Crossfit,. No, that's not how it works. You come in to use fans like you just start. It's reps like you can't get good at going to put on seminars until you've just done all of the reps and retail. It's the same way you just get comfortable with it and you increase the increase the awareness of a product or a product category that you're offering in your gym and your members will come and support you with it. They'll have questions that you may or may not have the answer for. But if they're trust me, if I the answer I know Crossfit, gym owners, they're gonna go find that right answer and they're going to give honest, honest feedback.

Fern:
So I start having I start doing that research if you want. I find. Like how many how many SKUs do you have total for during nutrition? How many products do you carry.

Jason Rule:
So we have 54 SKUs plus probably another twenty five or thirty with Charlotte's Web. Hemp oil and CBD.

Fern:
And I do want to get to that because I think that's super important. So. So a lot. Right. So let's say let's say it's safe to say that you guys offer something for most every scenario that an affiliate is going to encounter. OK. So I found it. I did my research. I think I found an appropriate solution. Now, how is now the question? How do I have this conversation? Because maybe I'm an affiliate owner. Who. Selling anything, even my own product makes me feel sleazy.

Jason Rule:
Get over yourself. I mean it. I mean, two things. Two things. Somebody ask you for a solution. You have an obligation to to deliver the best answer you can. The second one that a lot of people look is you have a business and an obligation to make sure that you keep your doors open, not just for you, just for your family, but for your members. So if they're coming to you for a solution so they can buy a product from you. And and I know I know you're speaking as as an example, but if you as a business owner are listening and that just like you really need to evaluate, like your members want you to be successful, they want you to be open next month, next year. So. If making $10. Making $20 or $30 on selling a product, you need to evaluate like your goals and life in terms of are you trying to run a business or did you just buy a hobby? If it's the latter. Eventually someone's going to open across the street. They're going to run a business. They're going to have regrets.

Fern:
I mean, that's a whole nother series of podcasts like that right there. You know, which I mean, there's still aspects of that I wrestle with today. But yeah, no, I agree that it's again. I think if we just keep telling yourself they're buying it anyway, why don't I find the best possible variation of that? Potentially not even that maybe they think they need that and they don't actually know that maybe they need something else, so. Right. What are some of the ways that you talked about entry point? And so when is it when is it most beneficial to talk about supplements? As a coach or as a gym owner? Is it a sport? Is it when somebody. Is it when somebody joins the gym? Should I be doing this once a week?

Fern:
Do I do flash sales? You know, Black Friday is coming up like like how do I start to to do this? Because most of us didn't get in this to sell stuff. We got in this to train people.

Jason Rule:
Right. An answer that I'm going to go back to your last question for just a second. To give somebody a specific tactic, OK? Because I went off on a tangent off on the rails, which I sometimes do.

Fern:
So it's a tactic. OK, good.

Jason Rule:
So an athlete ask you, hey, does this product fit me? You go out and you find the answer yes or no. Instead of delivering that in a vacuum where you go text message or you do one on one, talk to the owner posted up in your Facebook group or on your page and tag that athlete, unless it's something that's sensitive, that they're sharing information that's private, that they wouldn't feel comfortable. But if it's something simple like, hey, should I be taking a protein after a workout? Yes. Like, hey, here's the product. Here's the product. You ask me about. This is why I think I'd be a good fit. This is why I don't think it would be a good fit. So what's going to happen from a tactical standpoint is you're engaging with the customers. You're also letting the rest of the members know that you're a resource for that information. But the most powerful part of that is the other members are going to jump on board and they're going to reinforce what it is you just said. And then you become that hub that information circles around as opposed to the sphere going directly to one person. So hope, hopefully that helps.

Fern:
No, no, I dig it. Yeah. I think that's a that's a real and a really what you're saying is like, hey, you should be constantly having conversations with your athletes, you know, like you should be doing the you should be doing the dirty work of, you know, character care, which we like to say is like, how do you get good at a business while you just care about people a lot know and you really maximize customer service? What are some other ways or what are some other kind of like tactics within the gym that people can start to utilize? Like, do you? Are you selling packages on the front end when people join? Because some people feel really sleazy about that. Like I'm pushing supplements on people that I met yesterday.

Jason Rule:
Right. Right now it's it's tough for us because we have we work with and we have fifteen hundred affiliates last week. I guess this week. So we work with all different types of gym owners, some that like they're they're very staunch in terms of how they will offer it. There's some that are very aggressive on how they want to get in terms of offering supplements and other packages to their members on day one. So we have we have we have systems for both of those, depending on how somebody wants to run their business. At the very least, I recommend having the conversation on day one. If you don't want to sell members product, tell them that. But at the very least, walk by and say, hey, guys, that's our stuff on the shelf right over there. These are the products that we carry and we recommend the numbers. You're gonna find that you're going to see our coaches and see other members and see me taking these products daily. What I need to know is these aren't a good fit for you right now. When they are, I'm going to tell you. OK. But I also need you to know that if you have questions, you need to come to us because I'll be able to answer those for you. So having it on day one. I mean, this is not a secret. I mean, it's like the thing I try to compare it to. It's like like you can not teach a teenager about sex ed, but they're going to learn about sex ed.

Fern:
So that's my greatest fear, which I'm sure is, is you have a daughter as well. My daughter's going to wear sweat pants to be locked in a room until she's 30.

Jason Rule:
We won't get into that. But. But not keeping it a secret, making sure that the members know that you're a resource and talking about on day one, if it's something that you want to implement and get them on a subscription, like we even have that as an option. OK. Here's the bag. Do we recommend they can subscribe to it? We even have a system to where we can authorship and fulfill those four from the member can sign up on day one and we can fulfill direct-to-consumer. So but the other side of that spectrum is at the very least, these are the products that we recommend that house. I'm not going to recommend any of these two right now. What we need to do is these are the things that that we need to be doing as a person. And then when it's time, we'll start introducing other supplements or no diet or anything else but doing it intentionally instead of keeping it as a secret or waiting for them to hopefully, luckily ask you a question when they think about it. If they're around you, that's not a business approach.

Fern:
Yeah. I mean, it sounds to me like you're just saying honesty is the best policy policy. Like tell people. I don't think you should take these right now. We have other things that are that are higher on the priority list than that. And then when you're ready, let's do it. And then on the flip side of that is tell people, listen, like this should not be the bulk of your nutrition. Right, as a supplement. By definition, it's not. It is not with base of how I do this, because I mean, we could go down the rabbit hole of, you know, how a lot of westernised diet is devoid of vitamins and minerals.

Fern:
And I think that people are hip to that idea. And this is where some of the stuff supplements can come in. But you guys don't. I think typically in the Crossfit, space, I think a lot of people think of something in companies like Protein Pre-workout. But what else do you guys offer in the way of vitamins? And I kind of want to talk a little bit about the CBD because I'm a I'm a huge fan of CBD. Not just because, like, weed is great, you know, like but because like, I do think there's a lot of benefits to it. You know, I mean.

Jason Rule:
Right. Right. I'm in the same boat. So, yeah, you know, we've got the proteins. We've got men's and women's multivitamins which reformulated. There's only so far you can go with a multivitamin just because the size of the bill or number of pills that you're trying to get people to take. But we did bump that vitamin D up to two thousand I use. That's one we struggle on like should we do two thousand or five thousand since the RDA is so low on India as it is? I'm a big on vitamin D, which we felt the two thousand is something that someone could and should be taken around regardless of the amount of sun they get. Fish oil, amino acids. We have one pre-workout that isn't a very heavy hitter in terms of caffeine. It's 200 milligrams of caffeine. We have another product that's kind of. And all day it's really not a pre-workout. It's called Disrupt. It's our amino acids. But it has a hundred twenty milligrams of caffeine storing some electrolytes. So a lot of people will compare it to amino energy or spark from AppleCare.

Fern:
Yeah. I. We have it here. And I take it and I appreciate it because it doesn't make me feel like I'm going to walk into a WWE wrestling match when I take it. Yes. I always miss time it anyway, because I'm just you know, I'm a typical gym owner run around here like there a you know, with a Chinese fire drill. But I take it, you know, five minutes before the workout, at which point I finish the workout and then it hits me and I'm like, well, this is completely useless at this point. So, yeah. So I think I think about it and I'm thinking about myself as a business owner. I think where I think where people feel.

Fern:
More comfortable with the supplements as it is more along the lines of some of the things that we just discussed. Right. Which is the vitamin D, the multivitamin, CBD, fish oil and some of the pre-workout. So maybe you don't start with the proteins. Like if you want people to eat meats, you know, chicken, fish, grass-fed and you want to go down that road. Well, then do that, promote that because like I think we both would agree like that's the better option anyway. Then we can still backfill with some things here that I think are super important. I agree with you that vitamin D is is super important. The fish oil is something that Crossfit, has been just been. We've been waving that flag for 20 years, that fish oil and getting more omega 3s in your diet. There is virtually no study ever that would suggest anything other than that. You know, societies are the ones where you can start to really feel good about these products or we like it. Listen, virtually everybody should be looking at at least having a conversation about these products,.

Jason Rule:
Right.

Fern:
So let's talk CBD, because this is an interesting one and really hasn't, has it? I mean, you tell me you're a little bit more in the space there like this is really become a thing probably within the last two years. We're like people start being the CBD. Drum Yeah, and add a.

Jason Rule:
Thankfully, we were headed that way. I started looking into it for personal reasons about five or six years ago, I told that story a few times, but I started looking into it specifically three years ago when my son needed something to get information down so he could do track and football. So long story short, I came across a product which I felt was one of the most vetted ones in the space in terms of. And so you've got the questions of hemp oil versus CBD and there's just so much confusion in the space of what is the product. Where does it come from? Is it hemp Oil or CBD. And with my background in the southern industry, I was fascinated because I'd never seen a raw ingredient. Emerge so fast and have so many potential benefits, but have them water muddied so fast. And the reason that is, is because you're selling a product that has no, you know, this here. You know, this is for dogs, but you've got a product that's selling for one ounce, that's selling for anywhere between 400, between $40 to $300 depending on the product, like the ability for a company that's creating that kind of money and that kind of profit to mis inform its consumers. It's scary as shit to me, and that's really what I started looking at. So I started going down the rabbit hole. OK, who's doing it right? And that's what that's where we stumbled on Charlotte's Web. And we've been really, really blessed. They've been an amazing partner to work with.

Jason Rule:
And I tell them, I tell everyone on the podcast that I talk to you about it. If there was a better brand out there in the space, in terms of testing, in terms of validation of products, in terms of the concentration of CBD versus Hendel., we would be selling that one. That's one of the nice things about not branding our own products as a raw is I'm not married to one. We we staunchly carry Charlotte's Web.

Jason Rule:
That's because we feel that the best option out there.

Fern:
And I think I mean, if anybody there's a you can just Google and go into the old interwebs yourself. But like we. And what I'm about to say is completely anecdotal, but I started using it maybe like two years ago and like I get significantly better sleep when I do it. We actually even played around a little bit with our daughter who has she's autistic and like we've seen some different improvements within her as far as like helping improve her speech and her cognitive ability and things like that.

Fern:
And, you know, nothing crazy. You know, we're not like I'm getting ridiculous with it, but it's just like as a parent, you know, you're you reap the benefits of this stuff and you're just like, why? Why is every human being on earth not like at least toying around with this product? You know, it's like I can't find it. I can't find anything bad about it, with the exception of like people think that marijuana is the devil. And I'm like, OK. To each their own, like, that's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Rule:
Cbt CBT is awesome. And that a true story from a tactic standpoint. This will help if if. So like my background, my dad's a retired patrolman. My brothers out of trauma. And I've got two nephews that are now trauma drugs, just something we didn't do. It wasn't even like, no, that's just not it. So I never smoked weed.

Fern:
Yeah, I was the same way my parents were like, if you do that, we're literally going to kill you.

Jason Rule:
So, you know, once I started looking into it and started taking a look at it from a benefit or a medicinal standpoint of what can it actually do. So I would encourage any gym owners listen to this or any coaches take a picture of any product, any CBD products just like TSOUKALOS. Right. Like you may not realize what's out there and what your numbers actually, John. We have a Facebook group, by the way, and you can search us. I've got a picture. It's called Building Retail in Your Box Affiliate's. You're welcome to join that. But out there several times I've posted another affiliate supposed to back it's just a picture of CBT. That's Charlotte's Web and my hand and we put a question mark up there and then I just encourage the gym owners to post that image along with this text that says, do you take CBT and Y and then sit back and wait. One one affiliate did this about a month ago. And I think you have 32 comments inside of four and a half hours. Tell me the last time. Tell me last time you've made a post on your page. that got a third back.

Fern:
There are very, very few micro gyms are going to get that kind of interaction.

Jason Rule:
Right. Exactly. And not only that, but it's a way to test the waters like like, you know, don't have confirmation bias. Don't assume that everybody thinks the way you do, like, hey, if you're curious, post it out there and you may get your mind changed in terms of you. This isn't the devil's weed. You may actually find some instances where members it's changed their lives or some benefits that may resonate with you like, oh, shit, I didn't know that I should try it. So this guy ended up selling, I think, 18 bottles just from doing that. And these are consumable products, right? So what's going to happen in 30 or 40, five or 60 days? Sell it again.

Fern:
Yeah. And I've seen a lot of IBS prior military and I had a lot of friends who have, you know, played around a lot with this. And I've seen significant improvements for like PTSD, just just just depression in general. And right now, I'm not saying I'm not saying that this cures depression. It's not at all what I'm saying. But like they have noticed a significant difference in like how they feel cognitively, how they operate like just general emotions. It's totally not the end all be all. But it is it's it's an incredibly interesting product. And it is like we get our butter all day. It's it's super interesting. Now, let's say that people have done their homework. They're like, OK, well, I want to start with trade or nutrition. But then the question is like, OK, well, how the hell are these guys different than anybody else? Like, why are you why are you not OK? You know, like Project X was here and then they fell off the scene for like all sorts of crazy ass reasons. What makes you one of the bad guys to work? Why are you guys different? There's some there's some super interesting things that you guys do differently than most other supplement companies in the space.

Jason Rule:
This is where I suck as as an owners because bragging about us isn't something that I'm really, really as my jam and I know you're uncomfortable with that.

Fern:
But I think it's important because like I'm only married to what makes the gym owner's life easier. And I think there's certain things you you're doing that are incredibly beneficial to a gym owner who's having this problem. Doesn't ershad that it can be valuable. And, you know, at the end of the day, like don't like Jason, I don't have an agreement. Like if you want to buy driven, like, don't buy it, I don't care. But you should be educated. Understand how this and like some things that will make this far less painful for you in this process.

Jason Rule:
Ok, so I'll wind it up. So in over the last seven years of onboarded fifteen hundred affiliates, all that I know. In that time we have a North Star doesn't help affiliates. And is it something we can do if if we answer yes to both of those questions, we do our best to accomplish our. We're essentially a consulting company wrapped around this up in my life. We teach affiliates how to do retail just like what we've done on this call. Hopefully I'll help you guys. No matter what you're selling or are we actually have an onboarding process for new affiliates, something that's constantly evolving. And inside of about a week, we're gonna be onboarding a lot of past affiliates because we're gonna be launching a portal which has a video. So your question of how do I become more knowledgeable? So I get information. The portal will be specific and I'll have access to affiliates and I'll have access to their coaches. And different sections will allow. Different users will have access to different parts of the portal. Some of the things I'm most excited about is each product. We've been at it for the last four or five months now. Each product will have a video wall, three videos, actually, one specifically as what are the top five questions regarding this product? What's the basics? So that's a one minute and then we have what's the science behind the formula? So we start getting nerdy. So each one of those products, product, catalog. So it's built where it's going to take people through the journey of I don't know much about supplements, how do I learn more to where they get comfortable? And these are all assets that can be forward facing to consumers also.

Jason Rule:
So you can take the assets that we produce from a marketing standpoint and deliver those to to your members and then from their time your coaches into it because they're the tip of the spear. It's great for you to be on. But if we don't get them taking supplements, if we don't get them taking our supplements, then it gets really confusing as shit. Right. So if I do if I do, Petey's at your gym and you've got a different coaches and I do training with those eight coaches. Habra, what do you take? If I get eight different answers like that's broken, like that's really known as a broken from a business standpoint, but it's confusing for the member. Yeah, what what do I take? So having getting them on board, teaching them about the product, raising the role of awareness about the products and then giving them the ability to have conversations with members is something that can potentially create geometric growth as opposed to linear growth where one affiliate owner is talking to every single person in a vacuum. So that's that's just kind of the tip, the sphere. You know, we have the building retail group on Facebook that talks about us. We're constantly coming out with more articles, more content that we deliver to our affiliates through the onboarding process. I mean, we just we we try to stay very active and we listen to the people who we know are building our brand.

Fern:
And then something I thought was there, there's two big things and this is more on the business side of this, which which obviously this is where I think affiliate owners ears perk up, which is like a the margins are good. You don't have to talk about what those are, but they're good. Which is which is always the pain point for supplements. They're like, hey, this is 70 pound bag of protein. You're going to sell it for sixty five bucks. And I'm like, I don't need your four bucks, man. Like, thanks, but that doesn't help. I sell the soul. So ninety seven bags of this to get one at this point, like it's just not worth it at this point. So that is something you should consider. And the other one is you guys now do drop shipping. Right. So it doesn't have to come to me as the affiliate. Correct.

Jason Rule:
Correct. Right. Yeah, exactly. On both ends. So the the margin the one thing that I want to really drive home is margin is one thing. But if it has a business, you're not working from forty five to fifty five percent profit margin on a product. You're really not building yourself the. The pool of cash that you need to continue to grow that apartment, right. It's a category you shouldn't just order $300 with the stuff. And then next month, rent order, the same thing ended always with stuff. It should grow. And a lot of people say, well, how much should I stock? I don't know how much you can squat. Go put too much weight on the bar. And when it gets too heavy, drop it. Stock an inventory of the same way. But all of that circles around margin. So I'm going to forty five to fifty five percent profit margin as an industry is really important. And that's really what stores expect. So that's the reason that they're able to maintain the solid stock advertise and then build a proper business unit, which there's happens to be all supplements.

Fern:
And that wasn't always that was always like I mean, I'm just going to be really blunt about this. That was a real thorn in my side with a lot of companies that I dealt with before, because I know that like me, my previous life, I dealt with retail. And I'm like, I know that your margin on this is probably actually like from the from the wholesaler. Like from from the company is probably 60 to 70 percent. And what you're doing has given me fifteen to twenty. And I'm like, that's garbage. Like all you're doing is basically stealing all of this and having me do basically low paid slave wages. Like it's just like not really, really chopped my ass a lot because there's like we're not making any money on this. Like your meat. You're taking all of the margin and leaving me as the point of sale to just sit on product, you know?

Jason Rule:
Right. Creating creating customers for another brand with nothing, with no reciprocation is it isn't a very good business model. So and the only other thing I'll add to that is we actually teach. So the margins are great, but they're actually built around selling our products at a discount. We and we intentionally keep our prices set at retail prices on our website as well as on our Amazon store. The nice thing is about having them on both places from an affiliate standpoint, as you're your members are going to Google the products, they're gonna go, you want to read about it? So you don't want to find it just at your gym because otherwise it's like that's looks like shit. The other part of it is, is you've got valid reviews on both websites, people giving honest feedback from valid purchases. Not only that, but it's also verifying what's the retail value of this. So as a gym owner, you've got to remember, you say we're really be able to. We're really proud to be able to save you five or six dollars on each of these products. That's that's a powerful motivator for those numbers.

Fern:
Yeah, because that adds up. If you think if somebody is doing this, you know, once a month, you're talking about potentially saving them hundreds of dollars throughout the year because, you know, like we already to establish like they're going to buy it. And then how does the dropship work? Like, how does that. So my question is affiliated, OK, will, do I still make the margin or who makes the margin on the dropship? Like, how does that work?

Jason Rule:
So this was something that we struggled with for a long time because I'm a firm believer. You got to have product on hand, right? If you're teaching your members, it's important to take a protein after you work out. You should make it available after your workout. But from the speed of ordering like like some of the time study on it, I said this is going to save me seven hours a month of admin time. Holy shit, I never thought about that. Yeah. So what we did was we built it where your cost on it doesn't change like. So Sally comes in and answer your landing page and orders product. Your margin is actually going to go down, but your costs by the product is going to stay the same. The reason that is is because we have to pass shipping on.

Fern:
So yeah. Yeah, that's. mladić. Anybody's mad about that. But again, it goes back to like if if that takes my margin from I don't know from forty five to forty or from forty from fifty to forty eight. I'm not, I'm not splitting hairs about that. Like I don't care because of the time value of money. If it saves me seven hours a month then then I'm good. So I think that's I think that's a a loss that most people are willing to take on that because of the convenience of it. But we should still carry some stuff on hand. So I think that's I would agree with you. Any recommendations on like a retail setup? Like have you seen people that do that really successfully? This is always something it's very interesting to me.

Jason Rule:
Yeah, a lot of times people let that get in the way of, you know. I always say don't know. No, if I relate to turn green, to head into town, go to Walmart and buy a $40 plastic shell and it looks like shit, so be it like that. The thing that so many affiliates and coaches forget is your members want you to be successful. They want to buy these products from you. They want these recommendations from you. So if you start with a ghetto looking shell, they're going to support you on it.

Take that profit by an ice shelf, by buy nice shelving, get some type of racks that's going to set up to where it's going to merchandise out. I know that we talked about this going on your the process, having a good looking situation when members come in. I think that that's a goal to try to achieve. But you shouldn't keep up from just just like you shouldn't waited in shape to go to Crossfit, to start.

Fern:
Don't let Great be the enemy of good. There's just like just just start.

Jason Rule:
Right. Exactly. So there are some affiliates doing it really well. Brian Alexander Crossfit,, the woman has a has an excellent looking retailer. Stu Brahe has a really good looking retail area. I mean, he's my aesthetic guy. He doesn't put a whole lot of stock out there. If you go to the one place we do brag, which is Instagram. I figured I drove nutrition. Instagram. We repost a lot of our affiliate pictures of their supplement shelves , so that was really good. I never thought about that. We need to make a section specifically for, OK, how do I how do I display shit? So I appreciate that idea. Because that's something that hardily all conflict posting about. Yeah.

Fern:
Yeah. I would just like 3 percent of sales from your on.

Jason Rule:
All of my attorney review those. Yeah.

Fern:
I'll be I'll be holding my breath for that paperwork. Very cool. Yeah. And I think the big thing here is for people to take away is like I don't think it's a conversation that we as affiliate owners or trainers should shy away from because I mean you've been doing this for 20 years. I've been I've had a gym for four, 10 and been adjusting the Crossfit, space for 10. But I played collegiate athletics. I mean, the question about supplements, it is 100 percent coming to you as a professional. So you might as well figure out how you want to navigate that space. Do you want to say no? Eat, you know, eat paleo for the rest of your life? Or do you want to figure out that there is some room for for this marriage to work out and for it to benefit both your members or your customers and you as a coach or a gym owner? Because, again, you're not going to avoid it. It's like it's like I I've largely come to look at the supplement is like it's like defensive driving. It's like, listen, you're gonna have to drive on the road. You might as well figure out, like how to navigate assholes on the road. So there are a lot of them in the supplement industry. So how do wife educate myself and figure out like what's the most efficient way to do this so that it can be beneficial? Because, you know, for a long time we don't do it right now. But for a long time we were using margin's on supplements and retail to to basically fund equipment and maintenance budget.

Jason Rule:
So that's such a killer idea. Absolutely.

Fern:
So. And people dig out. And if you add in, my recommendation is tell people that I'm like any more than we make here, goes right back into the business. We are not pocketing this.

Fern:
It's going to go back to you because what's good for you is good for us. Right?

Jason Rule:
So, yeah, I had another affiliate owner. Reach out. He said it used it itself five pounds for 60 bucks and he had one member every every month and a half. He'd come by, slap six dollars on the desk and say, there's the down payment on the next the assalt bike ya prick. But it was all in good jest. But he made it. He made it aware, like this potential part of our business. We're gonna we're going to make it front and center. That's cool, because there they are talking about it and they want to support these gems.

Jason Rule:
But the number of affiliates that have and will go out of business because they don't embrace that, that their members want them to be successful. I don't know how many people for years. And it's not as bad as it used to be for years. People used to feel bad about buying a new car. Well, my members will think I'm making too much money. Well, shit, are they getting up at 4 o'clock to come open the doors for two people like it just. But I think that as a as as a as businesses, we've evolved past that. But if you can embrace that in terms of asking for testimonials, asking for referrals, asking for retail support, asking for retail sport and clothing, like I just want this two days ago from the gym I work out at.

Fern:
That's cool,.

Jason Rule:
Asking for that and letting your members know, like, I know I know the profit from this because I know what this is, what's your cost? And it's like we sell them. So Im happy that that's going to go to knock down a wall and then they're going to put up a new rag and then they're gonna buy five or six new shirts every five or 6 bikes rowers, because that's what we need. That's yeah, that's a strong community. And so many owners screw themselves because they don't own that part of it. They're not comfortable with it. You know, like I said earlier, like, just get over it. You're running a business.

Fern:
Yeah, I think that's really cool. Any so obviously, you said at the beginning as contests you read and you listen to a lot of books, anything you recommend for business owners to maybe either educate themselves on something or just help them get over that stigma that they don't want to that they want to sell this stuff.

Jason Rule:
Man, that's a good question. The first one that comes to mind is tribes' Seth Godin. Yeah. It's not specifically about supplements, but it comes down to. And then that ties in to his latest book. This is marketing. Really, just. There's the phrase that goes around and around, and I've said it even on this. Because I love I love the phrase. In nails it so much in his latest book is People Like US Do Things like this and embracing that from a business is what do we do? Like, what do is I try to put myself in the same situation of, you know, I feel one of the reasons that we are successful in this spaces because I'm empathetic and I'm able to put myself in the shoes of the affiliate owners. I've then that small business owner. I know what it's like to to stress to try to pay rent, to pay the bills. I've never missed an employee's payroll. Very proud of that. But I know the stresses that come with that. So taking a look at it from the standpoint of who are your members, what what does your community represent? And then going all in on that and not shying away from it. And I say that admittedly, knowing what just like on this call, like I'm not good at bragging about myself or our company. So I know that I need to do a better job at that. That's the reason that I'm trying to do better about coming on. Shows like this is trying to share what it is we do, because I think we're we're a little bit weird in the space in terms of the supplement industry and everything.

Fern:
Well, hey sometimes it's good to be aware and sometimes it's good to not be the norm because the norm isn't all that great. But I think there is no better place to end than that.

Fern:
So, guys, if you guys are interested at all, look up to your nutrition, get a whole get in touch with Jason, his team. He'll do an onboarding call. He'll walk you through all the stuff, look him up on Instagram and then check out that Facebook page, building retail in your box just to start educating yourself. And if you're not ready, then just keep kind of stalking. And then when you're ready, hit him up because again, you're going to get that questions. You might as well not avoid it. But, Jay, thanks, brother. I really appreciate your time. I know you're busy, man. So I really think this can be beneficial for all the listeners.

Jason Rule:
Well, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed this,.

Fern:
Alright Brother, Thanks.

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