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128. Doug Chapman | HyperFIT USA

128. Doug Chapman | HyperFIT USA

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Showing up is half the battle

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On today’s episode, Jason Ackerman chat with  Doug Chapman, OG in the CrossFit world, Hyper Fit (CrossFit Ann Arbor) was one of the first affiliates.  Doug was on level 1 and two staff till 2014, before stepping down, he uses to run 8,000 sqf affiliate then downsized to doing it in his garage, they discuss why he made the shift. Doug makes a clear line of what it means to be a professional coach and personality coach tough out the episode and way to ensure that you are pushing for the high level of coaching. They also discuss out Crossfit has changed from those very early on days. 

Time Stamps:

(5:58) Professional Coaches/ Personality Coach
(15:08) The Class Driven Business Model
(21:35) 10 Session on-ramp
(23:32) Personal Training
(32:32) Coaches Development
(37:16) Consistency – Coaching Behind the Lens 

Social Media: 

@hyperfitusa

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Ackerman :
Live with Doug Chapman, we are both drinking coffee, must be early in Michigan,.

Doug Chapman:
9 a.m., baby, same as your time.

Ackerman :
We have the same time zone in Michigan and Florida. Very cool. So, Doug, I’m in Florida now. Yeah. Last time we saw each other was probably still living in New York,.

Doug Chapman:
Dude

Ackerman :
So I’m in Florida and. No brief introduction does Type of Fate USA, which is also CrossFit Ann Arbor. Was that the first affiliate in Michigan?

Doug Chapman:
Yeah, we are. Actually, I was running a sub, Chris Bhola had. He had been like the eighth or ninth affiliate back in the day and now he’s like as a cause of attrition. He’s like the number one. And I went from number thirteen. I think there were five or six now overall in the world.

Ackerman :
Yeah. When I had Chris Cooper on a couple of weeks ago, we were saying in the lounge at the games, they had a list of all the affiliates chronologically and all of us had kind of moved up pretty high. I was like two hundred.

Doug Chapman:
So what about the attrition rate on that? That’s like it’s you know, at one point what we put push in, what, twenty four thousand affiliates or twenty three thousand. And now there’s like 13. You know, I don’t remember doing really official things that we’re talking about on staff. It was like they were saying like, oh, we can’t we thought we hit twenty five thousand.

Ackerman :
It’s been getting on the air. I know. Was really high at one point. I remember the official numbers. I know they say today it’s around fifteen thousand affiliates. Yeah. So was it.

Doug Chapman:
And then a lot of them. I mean think about how you moved up. Right. You know, it’s like you started out at one hundred and twenty seventh and now you’re thirty seven. Right. So you can map and do whatever the attrition rate. Who is it. Jeremy Jones. Jeremy from. From those that was the thing is, is a crock. He has go fire was the Diablo and.

Ackerman :
Diablo Crossfit,. Yeah.

Doug Chapman:
He’s like super engineering, kind of like super smart guy. And he had actually come up with a kind of a nutrition model based on the memory, had all the affiliates on that. I know a Web site.

Ackerman :
Chronicling the chronological order. Yeah.

Doug Chapman:
And that was he did that a while ago and I remember looking at it. I mean, I got I don’t have that much time on my hands.

Ackerman :
So, you know, you are now, you know, one of the first 10 or 20 based on attrition. But I don’t know if you remember, I believe you were at my level one that I took in 2007 in Toronto.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah.

Ackerman :
Remember Meeting you there has been pressed as you were on the Web site a little bit. Prior to that, what brought you to the level one crew back then, when did you get on there?

Doug Chapman:
Well, the way it was done differently back then, because nobody got paid to go. Right. Everybody was. I remember was a big deal when they started to pay people to go. And then they went to the level 2 thing where they were where they went to the level to cerf.

Ackerman :
Well, they went to the cef. But originally it was if you just show up again, you’re level 2.

Doug Chapman:
Yes. Yeah. But what they had done was they started, you know. It was back in the day and we would bring. Remember in Pittsburgh, I brought a couple of my my friends up there and they didn’t have enough equipment at Crossfit,, Pittsburgh. And so we brought I brought a carload of stuff, actually, Bill Henniker and Chris Taymor and a few other people all rode out there. Well, we’re all out there together because Chris played for the penguins back in the day and we had a whole bunch of d balls and, you know, and mess and balls because they didn’t have enough medicine balls of time, I think. Nothing, they had enough of them. And so we brought him out in Chris’s truck and it was cool was it was the first time they did groups and they were evaluating instructors and it was pretty cool. I think it was 2008.

Ackerman :
Ya Level 2, I think, yeah, because I took mine in 2008. How long were you officially part of the level one seminar staff until.

Doug Chapman:
2014?

Ackerman :
2014. And then you stepped down from staff?

Doug Chapman:
Yep.

Ackerman :
So one thing about you is you’ve had quite a few changes in your Crossfit, journey, I suppose, gone from, you know, at one point hyper. You say it was this huge facility. We had.

Doug Chapman:
Well, it was where I started hyper fit toward 2003 and in 2003 I’d started a kind of a boot camp program before I’d run Crossfit,. I was doing Karslake, very functional Lumos executed high intensity anyway. It just kind of like when I went at ground. Glassman I got to like all of you. This is this is like the you know, I found the book in the Bible that I was missing, right. And and so I already had this this personal training business and bootcamp business. And so I a hundred and seventy five people enrolled in my boot camp program, about 30 personal training clients. I was working really, really full time. And so I went to go set up affiliate and, you know, raise like all you get out, get a storage container or whatever they were doing. And and I opened a place of eight thousand square feet in the beginning and was, you know, twelve years I was living 11 or 12 years is the same place.

Ackerman :
So and so. So you shut down and now hyper fit and Crossfit, Ann Arbor is basically in your garage.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah. I have to send you a couple pictures of it. It’s pretty rad because.

Ackerman :
I will definitely post those pictures when people listen to this episode. So, you know, we don’t want to dive too far into the weeds, but I think a lot of people have gone through some of the same things you’ve gone through as an affiliate owner.

Ackerman :
I know I did myself. And it’s. It’s frustrating, you know, you have these coaches and you want to develop them and ultimately the your kids, they leave the house, but sometimes they do it nice and sometimes they don’t want to dive too far. So whatever you’re willing to talk about. But what were some of the changes that led to you downsizing, if you will?

Doug Chapman:
Well, the thing is, is that my one of the key strategies I did differently, one of my good friends is gonna meet me at 10 o’clock. So that’s why I like this. I booked this whole thing. He owns another Crossfit, affiliate. Right. Good friend of mine. And my philosophy was in order to have quality training and then and what I call quality training is there’s a whole bunch of metrics you need to have an have quality. Right. It’s like Six Sigma. You need to be able to track back metrics. And if the metrics aren’t there, then you really don’t have quality. You can you can have anecdotal stuff. Oh, yeah, we got this. We got that bullshit. So my my philosophy was as I might try and find a way to get guys to be full time instructors and have professional coaches. So what you end up with is this is that also creates a weakness for the business because you end up with three or four, you know, three guys. Right. You have forty five classes a week or 40 classes a week. Everyone’s getting twelve classes a week. Nobody is actually really full time at that point. Right. It’s not really. And, you know, depending on what you’re paying. People don’t make a living.

Doug Chapman:
It’s difficult. And so you supplement that by giving them personal training so you can do that. Right. And you can focus on quality instruction. Progressions really have kind of a. A paradigm of excellence. If you want to call it that way, then. Does an entirely different model, which is probably a better business model, because if one of those because each one of those instructors you have creates a cult of personnel. Right. Love my 9am class, it’s fantastic. It’s it’s cool, right. That’s what they do. But if they decide to go down the street or set up down there, it’s like, you know, you lose, you’ve got 300 members, you’ll lose 100 members or 70 members or whatever it is or what they do is a lot of times and they’ll get some of the members. You know, hey, listen, this is they must be making money hand over fist and they’ll set up down the street with money that’s been bankrolled by some member in the gym.

Doug Chapman:
That that’s been the places I know that’s happened a shit ton of the times.

Ackerman :
That’s actually being more common than people listening might realizing, you know, they have their favorite coach and they want to support. They look at it as an opportunity for them to invest, you know, someone that has money and wants to grow it in this coach and then they bankroll the box. The coach has their own space, you know. Spoiler alert. That typically doesn’t end well right now, but it happens, you know. You know, I’ve seen plenty of people lose friendships multiple ways that way. But I think the big lesson becomes, wow, Doug was a lot better than this. And I realized and I didn’t realize how hard he was working. But.

Doug Chapman:
It was different, that’s one model, right, where you have really kind of dependent on what you would call professional coaches. Right. And one of the things I think that’s one of the weaknesses of Crossfit, in general as a business model is the lack of personal training. Coach Glassman started personal trainer. I started as personal trainer, all the guys that were successful early on and continue to be to some extent. Our personal trainers. So in other words, in order to be a successful personal trainer, not only you have to have a quality instruction, a good personality, you have to have business acumen, which, you know, you take a 22 year old kid that just got his level 1 6 weeks ago and you put him in charge of a 5 30 class at any any affiliate. He’s going to have twenty five people or 30 people in class. And he’s I think he’s good because he has a bunch of people in class.

Ackerman :
Not realizing they’re there because of the business gap. And there.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah, absolutely. And they just end up with what I call it serious between cueing, coaching and actually training. And there’s kind of this continuum of they parrot the latest, you know, video that they saw on the dot com. Oh, yeah. Hey, hells. But back these out, up. Sit back. Oh, yeah. Could you just up keep you know, keep the string between your belly button and sternum straight and start date. You know, they pair it well outstandings like diagnosing problems. And when you do a lot of personal training, you work with a whole lot of very centrist movement patterning. It’s it’s it’s amazing.

Ackerman :
Well, you got developed a lot as well. I was actually talking about this with my wife last night. She was working out our development as like a little gym. And there’s a trainer that kind of hangs out in there and does this thing. And she was like, for one. I didn’t realize what you did before Crossfit,, you know, because I was a trainer. And she was like, that’s why you’re pretty good at talking to people because you had to be with them for an hour. And I was like, yeah. And I had to talk to people that I didn’t really like that much or have anything in common with, you know, unless I didn’t like older women for the most part. It’s like I don’t have a lot in common with you, but I had to make a conversation. So you grow not only as a coach. From that, I understand how to move people better. But just as a socially understanding humans, it emotional intelligence, all that stuff is happening when you’re one on one trainer.

Doug Chapman:
Absolutely. So I had some of the models. It’s you know, that’s one model where you have professional coaches, right? Everything is we want to have professional coaching because in all honesty, that the people to talk shit about Crossfit, and the marketplaces, they watch somebody doing something on a video on Instagram or YouTube or whatever, that which is pretty asinine. And because I think that all of this is going to be cool, it’s gonna be very functional movements, very to the point of randomness. Remember that?

Ackerman :
Yes.

Doug Chapman:
And what they don’t understand is that there’s whole progressions that go with that. And somebody. What you’re saying is it’s like somebody that takes a gun and they shoot somebody and it’s totally . I mean, that’s not what they’re for. They’re there for personal defense. Now, if you use the gun appropriately, you’re bad on you. Not bad on the gun. Right? Crossfitters the gun. That’s what if you use it incorrectly. Bad on you. It has nothing to do with Crossfit, because mechanics consistency, intensity, mechanics, consistency, intensity. So model one professional training. Model two personality training. Think about this. You have a whole bunch of part time guys are trading for memberships. They’re getting a free membership. They’re showing up. They’re reliable. They get other jobs. And but people like them.

Doug Chapman:
And you walk into a class like that and you see a third of the people moving pretty well. A third of the people like you. Yeah, they probably is. And then a third of people who shouldn’t even be there. Right. And so. But that what they’re doing is they’re Walker gone. Hey, Jason, good job. Good job. Thank you. You are awesome. You’re to get so fit. You’re amazing. And their personalities. But they’re not professional trainers because it’s not what they do. They get a free membership. They teach six classes a week. And the business does really, really well. They have really nice people. But the quality of the instruction. Right. And that’s. And it’s a very conscious decision on the business owner standpoint from physical business owners perspective is.

Doug Chapman:
Do you invest in someone who could fuck you in the end? Excuse my language? Or do you have a whole bunch of, you know, part timers, fun people to be around and center your your affiliate on on socials and go in it? Then, you know, people sleeping with other people type stuff, you know? I mean, it’s it happens all the time. Yeah. I just. There’s other stories like that much. One of my trainers. Just a bag. Yeah. It was bad dude.

Ackerman :
So, OK, you bring up some good points. I totally understand what you’re saying. How do you bridge the gap and do you bridge the gap? Is it? I think part of what you’re saying is it’s OK. You ran more of a professional coaching side where you’re developing people that can then leave. You know, how do we bridge that gap of. We want these people that are, you know, I’d say a nice way to put it is cheerleaders. You know, there are some queues out, but they’re just helping people have a good time, which is important. How do we get them to develop as professionals as well?

Doug Chapman:
When you figure that out, you’ll let me know and I’ll open another brick and water.

Ackerman :
That’s that’s the challenge. And that’s, you know, the people that I’ve had on F&D recently, Chris Cooper and Sean Pass. You just who both have the same philosophy of we need to develop professional coaches. But it is hard. And I think either box owners listening or coaches listening to all of that will resonate because the average person listening probably is that personality coach. They train two to four hours a week and it’s hard. They just don’t. It’s time and money, right. They have a full time job and they do this because they love it not to spend thousands of dollars on professional development.

Doug Chapman:
But let’s step back and say, OK, OK, now. So this was back in the day, 2002, 2003. So they charged at it was a balance. Now it’s at its LA fitness, now it has merged. And now that became, you know, all the stuff, right? Why? I started training right when my old fraternity brothers was the PT director. So I go in there and one, I have a unique background because I’d been in a way back in the early 90s when I first got to college, an MBA, and then I end up doing Wall Street stuff for a while for Smith Barney. And I hated it. And needless to say, I mean, to sit around, you know, selling on the phone all day long, which is was a challenge. It’s a different market now. So it had salesmanship skills. Now the words you learn how to, you know, show people the value of what you have. If you can’t show people the value what you have, you have a fantastic product that sits on a shelf. It’s not good economics. So I’ve had a combination of knowing about training and working out and being a former athlete and all that, all of the stuff we would do. And then I had an ability to sell. So I think I did a hundred thousand dollars in gross sales my first year as a trainer. So which is not bad. And we’d sense a bunch of records. And there was a whole bunch of infrastructure that had happened in the time that was that doesn’t exist anymore in that business because they wanted to have professional personal training, but they didn’t want the trainers to make money.

Doug Chapman:
So the split was I think it was 40 percent or 50 percent for us. And so at we’re making I’m charging 80 to $110 depending on the session at the time. And so you think about it. People are training three days a week. Right. So I’m making, you know, $50, $50 for $55 hour doing personal training. But it had to, at one, attract the client to retain the client. And so this was kind of a business within the business for those guys. And what happens with Crossfit, is, is people. It’s a it’s a group class based situation. So now, you know, here you are as my my new level one instructor, you now are officially qualified to go out and teach a class. And let’s say that you’ve come out of the community anyway. And so you know how we do progressions and stuff. So basically what you are is your substitute teacher for whoever is running the business. And that’s and that’s one of the things you run into. Now, when you ask the people who are trainers like that know, hey, Doug, I need to make more money. Yes, absolutely. So what was the last time you were at Starbucks? And you ask somebody, hey, you know what? You’re watching this video. You’re where you work out, strike a conversation and bring them into the business. That’s one of the real weaknesses of the class driven model.

Doug Chapman:
Right. Because you can’t pay a heart high percentage based on a margin like your pool of pool of revenue for general. General membership’s. Right. So that margin, you’re always pushing against it. So you give the guys an opportunity, but they don’t have the opportunity to sell. Everyone’s afraid to sell. You know, I mean, as a Level 1 staff. Right. You think you’re a great instructor. Here it is. Every weekend you get 60 people paying a thousand dollars a week or a month or a thousand dollars a month on month a session. Right. And you get out and we do the Shakespeare. We teach Shakespeare. Right. We taught Shakespeare. I taught you that way. But it is this we learn the same jokes, we pass those around, we have a personal link whether it comes down to diagnosing. Why does this kid’s hips shift as he comes out of the bottom of a squat versus, you know, what he does? Something about a hockey player I train right now. It’s like a seventh eighth grader and has huge hips shift, has a huge dominance on one side versus the other. Almost, almost a scoliosis type thing. And the thing is, is that that’s not what you learn. You learn cueing and how to run classes make sense.

Ackerman :
Ya I’m following.

Doug Chapman:
But you don’t have the ability to train individuals yet. Training, spending an hour with an individual. You say you don’t like them. I won’t take any, but I don’t like it.

Ackerman :
Back in the day, I was just trying to pay bills. Now there’s a line.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah. It’s like. You know, I’m spending an hour of my life we’re sharing and a half hour or 45 minutes of our life together. You’re a cool dude. I’ve known you for how long. Right. I’m excited to talk to you. That’s how you should feel about your customers. And if your customer is a douchebag, you know what? They need to find somebody because it’s a bad fit. They need to find somebody better that’s going to fit better with them. So I think that’s the major weakness in the model, is that we are class driven overall. And ladies, these trainers who might have one trainer that was, you know, wasn’t with them being a trainer kind of intern a little bit. Pretty smart kid. You know what? I couldn’t sell a sandwich to a starving man. Like literally, you give the guy a lead. Because what I did was everyone went, 10 private training sessions prior to joining classes did two things. Two things were one, A made sure it was a good fit between that person and what we do. All right. The two things have to mesh together. And it gave the trainers a script to follow for those sessions. So they got very, very good at teaching the basics of Crossfit, so they would have a sheet that would have checkmark.

Ackerman :
So so let me ask you that and I agree with what you’re saying. And then it is a challenge. You know, when I remember back in the day, I would try to sell one on one training, I would literally get like fifteen dollars out of the 60 dollars that the gym was getting at Gold’s Gym. So it’s just that’s why I was training people I didn’t like because I just needed to pay my bills. So you brought it up earlier, I think was before we got on. We recently had an episode on the on ramp where we discussed just pros and cons. When you had the bigger affiliate model going, you did ten one on one sessions. Mm hmm. And how did you get to that place? You did start with nine on eight or was just one day you went 10.

Doug Chapman:
So before I had gotten involved in Crossfit,, I had been, you know, doing a lot of personal training and doing boot camps. And there was a gentleman down. I got hired to go and do consulting work for this role at this multi-million dollar personal trainer space in Indianapolis. And I went down at his model, was based off of a half hour training session. So here’s Jason. You know, you send me an email that you want to join my gym. Fantastic. I respond. You come and we set an appointment. You show up for the appointment, right. And then you go 10 1/2 hour sessions. That’s two things. What we we’ve done out of Crossfit, is we made the price point for training so low that people don’t see the value in training anymore. They just. I’ll just do a class of stock lost when those people really need personal training. They need to have somebody really correct their movement pattern. And so what this guy had done was that he wanted it. I brought my boot camp program to him how to do it and how to set it up. And then I was looking at what he was doing business wise. He was doing a million a half dollars a year in revenue on personal training. Only they didn’t have a regular gym membership. There was just a one point five on just personal training at the time, which was huge, had been about property, had a beautiful building, and they had the space around to do a group class to fill in. This was a good chunk of it was just when I first got involved with Crossfit,. And so I decided and I had been converting my boot campers to being Crossfitters. Right. So the price point for bootcamps, very low price point expertise cost is much higher for Crossfit, because it takes a lot more expertise to want to Crossfit, class. Right. Bootcamp class, you’ve you’ve got if you’ve got ABS and you’re not completely a moron, you can run a bootcamp program. Right.

Doug Chapman:
I don’t sugar coat things do I?

Ackerman :
That’s alright. I don’t think people want to hear sugar-coated stuff. So my question to you then would be. All right. So you have these Crossfit, coaches out there now and they do want to go from that two hour week or a week to make this a living. What’s your advice on how you convince people to do personal training? Because because you’re right. The the benefit and the beauty of Crossfit, is it’s, you know, one hundred fifty dollars trained as much as you want in a group session. You get some one on one attention. But now we have to take a step back and say that’s why we brought you here. But we actually think you need to pay a hundred dollars an hour to develop a better squat balance. You know, you want to learn how to do it. Kipping pull up. This is what we need to do, etc.. What’s the what’s the path of that?

Doug Chapman:
So the path is this. So what I’ve done is as like, OK, I had this problem because that’s couldn’t sell personal training. Then none of the guys when that when a major mistakes I made, none of the trainers, I had it all the top to bottom in my entire career. Were successful trainers on their own. They were never they never came. So they never had the ability to do that. So but everybody would join. Let me talk about process and how people do personal training. So you join, you send me an email. I didn’t have a phone number on my my Web site because, one, I wanted to have somebody who can follow instructions in in your screening out, people that don’t fit. Because if somebody doesn’t fit into your business, your culture, then they don’t belong in your business. So if somebody can’t follow basic instructions, send an email, make an appointment. Right. So now this person has interacted with the three or four times prior to even walking in the door. Right. The worst thing you can have happen is somebody walks in the door during a class. There’s an instructor on the floor. And you don’t have money for us for a front desk staff.

Doug Chapman:
Right. So they wander around a little bit. Cashbox disappears. You know, that type of stuff. And so then they go, hey, you give me an intro session. And this is the one we build off of. andI Tronox things, which was the baseline. Remember the baseline?

Ackerman :
Yes. The baseline test.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah, absolutely. And now people understand that the process of training for Crossfit, requires a brain requires a brain. So here here you are. You’re super deconditioned. Right. And I have a teach you other technique. Everything we have has technique. So sell you on a concept idea of this. We’re going to teach you how to do everything you need to do. You snatching a barbell on your first day is malpractice. Right. So but how do you build that up? So you have a progression, a series of a curriculum. How does how do you learn English when you’re a kid? Right. Yeah. I mean. And then all the way through college. So he had 10 sessions and then what we did was, is that amongst the staff we would rotate. So you would go to me the first time, maybe then you go to a the next person. So we all get, you know, you.

Doug Chapman:
So there’s any kind of we’ve seen you move. So you show up to class one. We know your name to. We’ve seen you move. And three, we have some sort of semblance of a relationship. OK. And. And that’s important because that person needs to be valued, welcome and respected. So I value you coming to my business. I want you there and we respect you because we’re not going to just throw you into a class without proper training. You know, that’s. And then they think about the lawsuits have come in at Crossfit,, that’s where it’s where people are just thrown him into the end of a class. A lot of times you would have a waiver on him. So we would have this process of teaching these guys people and they would baseline the beginning, go through their progression, which was all of the basic skills and everything they need, you know, to be able to scale. Generally in a class so that you’re not taking up 90 percent of the coach’s time if you’re kind of a movement move mentally challenged person.

Ackerman :
Good way to put it.

Doug Chapman:
I don’t I don’t I had I had something more impolite, but I actually just went with the polite way.

Ackerman :
People If they went through this and found you emailed you it etc they would do. What was the cost of these 10 sessions?

Doug Chapman:
Well, it was 350 bucks, 65 per a half hour.

Ackerman :
That’s not a bad price.

Doug Chapman:
Very cheap.

Ackerman :
Yeah.

Doug Chapman:
And what happens is, is this is that now part of the concept is, is that we’re training you to be responsible for your own training. So you need to show up 15, 20 minutes early. You’re supposed to. And the first day we teach you how to warm up. So you grow a thousand meters and you do it with 30, 20 or 30 minute first crime Crossfit,. OK, we’re having to teach people to average people to do a squat. So I’ve got wood wood dowels for you, PVC bikes.

Ackerman :
Before rouge started selling PVC pipes.

Doug Chapman:
Oh yeah, absolutely. And then. And so we’d have them practice 30 air squats, 20 pass throughs, mostly by really shitty shoulders. And then 20 overhead squats to a ball and then to all of the PVC. by. This was to do that on their own. And then we teach them how to mobilize where they would go out and do tissue preparation prior to doing it. So they get in the habit of they come to a class. Classes an hour. I want you there early and you’re taking care of all other things and get build that culture. Right. And then at the end, a lot of times we would set up a a workout that would extend past that half hour. Right. But you don’t need a whole lot of coaching to do an air squatting push up or whatever, some sort of simple thing. But you need enough a metabolic hit to make make changes happen. So at that session, that was a half hour. You’re a half hour paid with the instructor, but the other half hour you’re there on your own taking care of yourself. And the idea is that we educate, we motivate and we lead. We’re not babysitters. And that is a huge thing for your culture of the business. Thanks, make sense?

Ackerman :
Yeah. No, that’s great. You’re mean, you’re just developing good quality members by doing that.

Doug Chapman:
You ever see that, Julie post this every once in a while. One of the 10 sessions of her intros, that thing where she said like when she was first she got Bambi knees and the whole bit. Right. And that’s like her sixth or seventh session. You post I got a million hits on it on my YouTube channel. Crazy. But that wasn’t special. I used a video every single session I did that would do it in two directions, one from that kind of a forty five and one from kind of Canada. Can this area. Right. So that I would go back and I would put them together, then I would review it and see is like. I would listen to what I was saying and queuing versus what was happening in front me. So like a lot of times I would watch a session, I would watch your session, Jason and and I would evaluate my performance as an instructor. Oh, man, I didn’t I didn’t like their weight was shifting forward. That’s why their heels were coming up. It wasn’t because they have high heel cords. Right. You know, whatever. And I would I would evaluate them. So I literally have thousands of sessions, literally. I got like 3000 videos on YouTube channel and a good chunk of them are evaluations of of training. And so have have all my staff.

Doug Chapman:
We’re supposed to. We didn’t do it because some of them weren’t super motivated all the time . They’re supposed to video their session and then take some time to review it, especially as they’re going through their complex with the complex re followed. And and that allows you to get leads to your personal trainer. Professional training. Right. So where does your I go to the drill where it’s like, OK, where does your I go, what are you saying? And so you look at where. Hey, I’m watching the heels right now and I’m watching as he’s going through a squat. The waste going to shift for an app that is flat. Right. It shouldn’t be. How much should it be? How much is going to be reasonable and like why? What’s the causation of it? What’s causing that shift in the foot? That would be one thing. And the video has a lot to do that. And Julie kept sharing that. She shares that every year because an anniversary thing is just kind of a cool, traditional person. And. But they have, you know, and she didn’t. If you look at the video, she doesn’t look special compared to anybody else. But that adherence to mckennis consistency, intensity is really was one of the major differences for us. You know what we did and that intro package was huge, huge.

Ackerman :
So we definitely want to find out why you’re YouTube for people that are listening. You’re referring to Julie from Shay. You were you were her original coach in Crossfit,. So I’ve not seen anybody off to check it out by you. I think that’s really important. What you said is. Coaches evaluating their own coaching. That’s how you’re going to mean if if a coach is listening and they’re thinking, OK, what Doug is saying is resonating, I mean, you need to improve as a coach. That’s a simple and easy way to do that.

Doug Chapman:
I went through a situation where I do myself. I’m a staff development where. The practice, you know, foundational movements, right? Everybody learns them at level 1. Right. Oh, I got this. I’m going to drive the overhead. Did request. Oh, fantastic. Now let’s go ahead and speed this up a little bit so we make false. Right. Yeah. Now, imagine I put a mike on you and we video you teaching that series and then we evaluate you as an instructor front and you get to hear what you say. And you hear the. Hey, Jason, look, I want to be sure who’s who’s cool. I was you something awful, isn’t it? Oh, I’m cool. I’m cool. All right, cool. OK. Now we’re going to dip in where we’re going. We’re going to dip and drive. Right. We’re going to dip and drive. We’re going to dip it. No, no, no. We got you vertical. Oh, yeah. Not dip and drive. You go in and you catch all that shit. And you’re super self-conscious. And it’s absolutely horrible. But when you see yourself teach. You go now, you got that that that that leads professional instructors, people who don’t go have weird colloquialisms like, you know what I’m saying?

Ackerman :
First of all, this is audio. But people need. I’ll put the video up of you doing all of this because I’ll put it on YouTube.

Doug Chapman:
That’s actually good. That’s good.

Ackerman :
So make sure we have it. But it’s funny because some people may be listening and think that was the best progression for the president. I heard. So they’re not you know, they’re not grasping,.

Doug Chapman:
But they look like a monkey fucking a football.

Ackerman :
Well, they’re not grasping that and they’re not grasping a lot of the bad stuff happening because maybe they don’t know. And I told this story when I had somebody chatting about their intern program on when I used to do my intern. We would film and I’d have them come. And I had a guy just like that. He was super professional in the real world. Talked really well. And he would say, OK, every other word when he coached. OK, OK. I called them over and I was like, let’s watch this. I said, let’s count how many times you say, OK? He said, I didn’t. The first time he watched me, he goes, I didn’t say him once. And I looked down as having zero. Like, you’re messing with me right now. I go. Let’s watch it. I’m going to do a dash. Every time you say. And then finally, he caught it. And this is a really smart, really financially well-off, has a big deal job. So imagine if you know you’re new to this. How much you can pick up from watching yourself, coach. I think that’s invaluable.

Doug Chapman:
You’re talking about it takes time. You know, and if you are, that’s it leads to back to our original problem. You have a professional coaching staff or you have a whole bunch of part timers or you have, you know, the they call it like good quality, mixed economy where you have some socialist policies and some Republican policies. But some of them are kind of mixed. And where you have you have three or four, three, three professional trainers or two professional trainers and the rest are just part-timers. You know, the mixed economy. That’s pretty good.

Ackerman :
And that’s exactly it. And my one of my boxes, when I had four or five guys, I would train all day and then a couple of would just show up and you get mad at the ones that are giving their all because you have these guys that are willing to develop.

Doug Chapman:
Yeah, it’s problem. Well it’s a there’s it’s a.. It’s a problem because it depends on if. What are you making money to. Are you know, are your customers happy and what people live down the hall or West Virginia. Think it’s somewhere there. Were inner. Their behaviors are OK.

Ackerman :
Yeah. Know. OK.

Doug Chapman:
My mom and, dad get divorced or they still brother sister.

Ackerman :
If enough people are willing to video themselves and develop damn one or two other tips you would give to somebody listening. This is all right. I do want to take these steps and improve his approach.

Doug Chapman:
I would say make sure that your entry program is consistent. So in other words, if I say OK, these have a minimal level or core MLSE minimal level or competency. Person used to have more to do. a class. Right. How do you do a class where that. What are the minimum level progressions you have to be able to know as an instructor and as a consumer in order to participate in a class? Because if you’re not leading people through progressions. Yeah, that’s not quite. It’s not quite the thing.

Ackerman :
So everybody needs to have the consistency. People need to develop the, you know, at least the ability to do a certain number of movements and do them properly. Mechanics. What else would you say we’ll do?

Doug Chapman:
One other tip you would give a coach and I would think is, is that how you operate? Your classes need to be consistent. So in other words, how Jason teaches a class how Doug teach the classes. How Katherine teaches a class needs to be consistent. They need to be homogeneous, homogeneous, which is where it’s kind of OK. So we start on time. We’ve all had those instructors who don’t start. Crazy, right? And then they go over when you get back to back classes. And so the class in front, you can’t do the warm up because the ivory is still breaking, not all the equipment in the class before. And then there’s a socially I mean it follow me. It’s like those things need to be executed consistently. Just like the other thing is I really done a lot of was a thing called coaching behind the lens. So one of the things that that I had done and actually on the my one of my we’ve had Bokassa back in the day, we would upload all of our photos. And so in every class, part of the social interaction between the coach and the client was to make sure that you talked to everybody in the class a minimum of three times. So if I’m walking and I have a good pattern through how you’re set up. So what they would do is, hey, Jason, I want you to stay back on your heels, I’ll show you. Let me show you. They have this cannon. It was I think was a 60 at the time. And they would they would shoot a series of photographs. Right. And then they would go, hey, take a look at this.

Doug Chapman:
And then they would say there was only got the customer go, oh, I get it, because they had it visually. Probably tabulator is not there yet. Right. And and so the people would go these things and they would get mad if we forgot to upload the pictures because they would put on the pictures and use them for their social media. We would have really cool photos. I’ve got like two hundred and forty thousand photos and I’m not exactly. Look, the other day I might have had too many photos videos and of people doing classes and training and it was one. It’s cool for social media, but you get chance, you get a chance to see yourself operate. You know, others. You know, you don’t. You made it. Hey, Mike, my buddy Ed teacher and I do my guy to micromanage drug Cromwell Magog structurer. And so I’m like, OK. ED, put your hands on your face. And he puts his hands on his face. So are they at eye level? He goes, yeah. He’s like, that’s just the other eye level. Are you sure? Where are your eyes at where animals are? No. Bring them in front of your face. You know, just basic stance stuff. Because he’s he’s a Ford MBA type, super burly, just retired. Good buddy of mine for many, many years. Has. Nicest guy on the planet. Has like he’s driving around his cars, driving around with nobody at the wheel because he doesn’t move his body real well. He’s got a business. But it’s true. And I would you know, and I’m going to do what I can to help him out again, to move better.

Ackerman :
But anybody that did not Philly back in the day like we did cannot understand that a fact had to upload all those pictures like that before Facebook, before a smartphone. I saw blood twelve at a time to my type had Web site.

Doug Chapman:
That was awesome.

Ackerman :
But you’re right. And people and I know if they weren’t up by 10 o’clock. People see the pictures. And that call. Yeah. Nightmares coming back. This isn’t great advice for new coaches. I always like to ask everyone, do you have a book you recommend people read?

Yes. Well, I actually I do a book of the week for my people and my programming. And the reason is, is that one is I think that people are read enough. You know, we scan articles and we do podcasts and we do stuff like that, which I think is fantastic. I think I recommend a bunch of books I just did. I I love Robert Greene’s books. Martin Green. His latest book is right here. Oh, yeah. The Laws of Human Nature.

Ackerman :
I see that one at the aiport all time.

Doug Chapman:
Well the things is with this guy. I mean, Robert Green decimating research and has a lot of historical things that go along with it. I just a couple of weeks ago this is I live in Michigan. It’s relative. Mary Ann Arbor. OK. So here’s I want to preface this. I read Urban Meyer’s book from Ohio State. And the reason is, is that one of the guys I know is there’s a high level football coach, but he’d he’d recommend it. You were pretty focused. Three have not been quite has a whole bunch of stuff. I mean, actually, anything written or if in the classes by Tim Kite, definitely worth it. And you know, these are all current event type things. I will say this is if you’re living in the United States of America and you haven’t read the Atlas Shrugged or Op-Ed, you’re wrong. You know, you guys get past some of the volume of it all. But the key problem that people have in general, and that is they have to do with business or politics. And we don’t have a philosophy that we really adhere to. Right. You know, our philosophy, Crossfit,, mechanics, consistency, intensity, we’re developing work capacity, Goff’s broad time and modal domains.

Right. That’s what our philosophy is. And so now if everything that you do filters through those those gateways. Right. So if you’re programming something, is this adherent to mechanics, yes or no? Is are we had we done this often enough to have a good pattern? OK. And then is it can we raise the intensity level in a safe manner? Yes or no? Are we creating work capacity? What’s the word capacities, our goals? You know, those are the things that our philosophy and Crossfit,. Right. What’s our social philosophy? What’s our political? What’s our economic? What’s. And have those things because we’re in a day and age where we have an attention span of half life or one of those really big frickin molecules at the end of the periodic table. They’re there for like nanoseconds or if that. Right. Our ten spans are on. I think that people need to really establish who they are or what they’re about and figure out what fits in your philosophy, what does not. I think that’s one thing that that’s outside of this realm of thrusters and burpees is to figure out what the hell you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

Ackerman :
Solid advice and about halfway through Atlas Shrugged, and when I’m done, I’ll have to have you back on for an Atlas Shrugged discussion.

Doug Chapman:
Who is John Galt?

Ackerman :
Who is john galt. So where can people find you on the Internet? You mentioned your YouTube channel. What’s that?

Doug Chapman:
I don’t Know.

Ackerman :
Well a sure they go on YouTube and search Doug Chapman or Hyper USA. They’ll find you. Right.

Doug Chapman:
I think so.

Ackerman :
And got like,.

Doug Chapman:
Honestly, I you know, I’m not one of the things that really irritated me. But what the traffic something where I coach Glassman kind of got away from the game so much is I think you get tired of booty shorts and attitudes and like nobody. It was interesting to talk to, you know, and they live in social media and do my white booty shorts make my ass look good? Well, at my age, 51, I got news for you. My ass ain’t what it once was. It’s that I do it. I’m not much in that I got hyper fit us and Instagram, which is cool. I usually put something that I put fun. People get my sense of humor. So I had to create a fictitious person that I am for. The other ones would.

Doug Chapman:
Definitely check out on hyper-v USA. Look for him on YouTube and whether you love form or not, understand that. That was a great tip. You dropped the video yourself and not just about the athletes moving by what you’re doing. So, Doug, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you. I’m excited, man. Atlas Shrugged. Like you said, you have to get over that size. I’m about 60 percent into it. It’s a great book. I’m excited.

Doug Chapman:
Where are you at right now?

Ackerman :
I’d want to look at it and think for a second. Let’s see.

Doug Chapman:
If you’ve gotten the gold gold yet.

Ackerman :
No, no, no. I’m not even on part 3. I’m still like deep in the apart two.

Doug Chapman:
Awesome. Now, non-cat prediction.

Ackerman :
Yeah, it’s tough, it’s tough, but I’m enjoying it. Like you said, I think it’s something. It was one of those things where I think everybody should do it in their life and then I’m gonna finish in hopefully within the next month or two.

Doug Chapman:
The other author, I think it paradice that Miss Rand is Jordan Peterson.

Ackerman :
Jordan’s great. I’ve just finished it twelve times. Twelve principles.

Doug Chapman:
So my first book from him was Maps of Meaning. Over my head in so many was . It’s pretty intense and then just. I just got the 12oz while ago. Hey buddy, Thank you.

Ackerman :
Thank you very much. Have a great rest of the day, Doug,.

Doug Chapman:
Yes, sir.

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