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134. Greg Hammond | Concept II

134. Greg Hammond | Concept II

Greg Hammond is an OG in the CrossFit world. You might recognize him from last week at the Dubai CrossFit® Championship as he judged Sam Briggs in the Bike Erg and run event. In today’s episode, Greg and Jason talk about how Concept 2 started, where the name comes from, and most importantly, the ideas behind their new products. For example, how did they think of Ackerman’s least favorite machine…the bike erg? Greg breaks down some easy ways to coach on the rower and what to look for. So, in your next class, you’ll have new cues and knowledge. One thing that stands out in this podcast is how much the Concept 2 employees care about their product. Greg talks about the company and owners with so much passion and excitement, it is no wonder that Concept 2 has continued to thrive in the fitness space.

Time Stamps

(0:58) How Greg ended up working at Concept2. 
(2:42) What was Concept2 like per Crossfit? 
(7:49) The Open Hack
(10:20) The Damper Exampled
(14:58) The ideal strokes per minute?
(16:14) Race Start – Video – Below
(17:45) Rough Guild for damper setting for distances
(19:52) Greg’s hardest rower workout – Most Meters in One minute.
(23:01) Low hanging fruit to get athletes better on the rower quickly 
-with legs, body, arms, arms, body legs-
(27:15) Coaching the rower
(28:44) Deeper drive into Concept 2 
(32:53) The second one is always better – Where the bikerg/skierg come from?
(41:40) Assault Bike/ Concpet2 Bike
(46:20) How many have they actually built? 
(51:21) Worst Scenario 
(56:34) Impact Concept 2 has had on Crossfit world

A reminder: if you have a problem just ring up Concept 2 they will help you, they will do whatever they can. Most importantly they want to help.

Soical Media:

@concept2greg
https://www.concept2.com/

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Ackerman:
All right. Greg Hammond is here with us on best hour of their day. Now, many of you may not have heard of Greg. But you have seen Greg because he's the lunatic running around on the competition floors at all of the sanctions. Previously at regionals, at the Crossfit, Games, making sure the concept 2s are ready to go. Welcome, Greg.

Greg Hammond:
Hey, thanks, Jason. Fun to be on.

Ackerman:
So you and I go back a very long time. We were just reminiscing even about the first ever concept to rowing seminar. But before that, before you had the relationship of concept to with Crossfit, how did you get involved with the company?

Greg Hammond:
Hold on Jay, you just cut out.

Ackerman:
Great. Well, there is shoddy Internet here in Boulder, Colorado. But let me re, let me ask you that again. How did you get started with concept2?

Greg Hammond:
I started here twenty three years ago. I had a business doing corporate wellness in Maine, working in paper mills and was from Vermont. But because I was on a budget with my corporate wellness, I would always buy concept2 equipment because of how fit you can people get people on it. And it wouldn't hurt my budget that much. And when I'd call up and talk old college buddies at work here and stuff. And eventually I just said, I want to move back and this companies really cool. So I actually moved back, started working here, building or building hand building rowing machines. This would've been like ninety six I believe around that time and just been here ever since. Kind of worked my way through all the different jobs here and and ended up in marketing and a focus on Crossfit, because we've Crossfit, first started.

Greg Hammond:
They needed somebody with prior service to teach them rowing at the Navy SEAL School in San Diego. And that's when I first met Dave and Greg and Eddie Lugo and all of the original kind of OG Crossfit, guys.

Ackerman:
Yes, some old school names there. But you know, we all see concept 2 now. Twenty nineteen. It's huge. In 96, was the company as big as it is today or is it just one of those companies? We wouldn't you know, I was involved in fitness and a rower was one of the pieces of equipment that would collect dust over the corner of the globe gym and I know Crossfit, really elevated that. What was it like back in the day there? Was it, you know, just this thriving and we weren't aware of it?

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. It's funny. That's a great question. I don't really get that that much. I'm in a lot of times when I do stuff like this is a you're one hundred percent. Right. So it's kind of weird. So we're we're always been big in the rowing market. So what people don't realize is that rowing is a really big sport globally. So when I first got here, like most of our sales were were a lot of our sales were to the UK market because of our orders and rowing training for on water rowing course. We always had the Harvards, the yales, the the schools that had big rowing programs. And then you're right, we're always a staple in all these different global gyms they'd buy like two rowers. But if you ask them when they bottom why they're buying what we just need to have them. We don't know why, but you've just got two. And so they would be pushed to the back of the room.

Greg Hammond:
And typically they're used by the older clientele and they would just be bought back and forth. We're gonna known as like that machine that the older people used or like. We were definitely not cool. We were not cool for the majority of our lifespan. You know, that were there. It was only until people started training hard on it and throwing up that we got cool. You know, they're like, oh, wait, the more people hurt themselves on machines, the more we sold, the more they loved on. They realized that you'll never beat the machine. And then that's when we started getting popular, when people saw that it could be an easy piece of equipment to use for warm up, but it could also wreck the most elite athletes of the world. At the same time.

Ackerman:
Well, and also in comparison to some of those other pieces of equipment serving the same function, like ellipticals, a fraction of the price. And I can tell you, having on three affiliates, they don't break.

Greg Hammond:
So we don't take it lightly. So we still make everything right here in Vermont. So you're right. We we put a lot of emphasis on quality and the thankfully and you know, you've met the brothers, you met the founders, and they're the lead engineers and they really, truly believe that you should be able to buy it once and have it the rest of your life. And to this day, you know, we sell p.m. five monitors with Bluetooth technology also that will retrofit onto a model, a rowing machine, which is the bicycle wheel in the front. That was made in like nineteen eighty three. So you'll always we don't engineer obsolescence, we just make it anything cool that new comes out. We try to make it to retrofit on the old ones because the machines itself should last you forever.

Ackerman:
Yeah, we had a model B and any Crossfit,. I got it. You know when I first opened my affiliate's I would just go incredulous that people would buy these and not use them and sell them at a half price.

Greg Hammond:
Oh, the model BS is like we're the same air coming in the Crossfit, model. These were a staple because back then when you open an affiliate, you either making your own equipment or welding up your own pull up bars, filling basketballs with sand for for D balls and they're going out, like you said, and getting Craigslist rowing machines or they were, you know, go into their grandmother who had this rowing machines that, hey, I have this for Crossfit, and stuff.

Greg Hammond:
So Model B, even so, as you know, I train out of Champlain Valley Crossfit, when Jade Gennie started that and I started going to work out with him. He actually had two Model B's and a couple model C's at the time. And then kind of lucky for him. I was able to get him like stuff from here afterwards. So we quickly pushed those to the side. But but yeah, that's model BS. I bet you 90 percent of all the model BS we've ever made are probably still in use. Somewhere's.

Ackerman:
And I would tell you, even though it was older, the foot pads were wood. Right. People would fight over it because there was this belief at the box that the meters were easier on the model b. So they would all fight over the model B.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. And it's it's really kind of an illusion, just like all the new ones where we have a damper that goes one to ten that affects the drag on the BS. The really early ones didn't have that but had two different sprockets, a small one and a big one. So if you didn't understand drag factor and it happened a bit on the smaller sprocket, it might feel like it was easier when in all reality it is just a different feel. It wasn't necessarily going to get you more or less because it's always effect by your technique. And the drag in there. But yeah, the wooden though everything was wooden handles wood, wood, foot boards. Yeah. I think weighed about 80 pounds is crazy.

Ackerman:
One you couldn't you couldn't break in and. There was one solid piece and I don't believe it went upright like the new ones do either.

Greg Hammond:
No. No. Matter of fact we had a two inch box steel construction monorail on there that if you ever come to me, you've been a concept 2. We used to use that for everything. So anything that was made in the production or use the production of rowing machines turned into if we needed a desk, if we needed, you know, a table, everything was made out of that same two inch box steel. It was everywhere's.

Ackerman:
So I want to ask you about a couple of the nuances of the machine in a minute, but before that, let me ask you about this. The last couple of years in the open, when rolling has come up, there's been a little bit of a hack that people have found in order to get, I believe, like 7 calories. pull, I don't know the exact hack. Tell us what goes on within the rowing machine itself, within the erg and allows this to happen.

Greg Hammond:
Well, first of all, it is completely fixed. And it was actually put in there on purpose way back when in the 90s, when referred to in the founders, called it basically sweatshirt mode. So in other words, if you started rowing and you got on heat, you won't stop for a second and take your sweatshirt off about seven seconds and start running again. It would recalibrate because people don't realizes between strokes is when it does the calibration of drag factor. And so what it was doing is it was just getting confused that the drag factor was set at. And I mean, the nice thing is at seven seconds, you're clearly cheating if you use this because no one the right mind takes one stroke every seconds. Seven seconds is the only time it shows up. And since has been changed and all the software and stuff like that. So you can't do it. And of course, if someone saw you do it, they would call you out on it. But yeah, we put it in there as a as a benefit to people so that it didn't screw up their workouts, a game of chance to time to basically take it off in the middle of it. But then certain people thought they were cool and put it on the Internet to make themselves look cool. And it caused a big stir, but luckily was caught by just about everybody. So.

Ackerman:
Ninety nine percent of Crossfit,.

Greg Hammond:
That was blowing up that day.

Ackerman:
Ninety nine percent of Crossfitters are willing to work as hard as they can, but there's always one percent looking for the easy way out.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. I mean, it's I liken it to the guys that said, you know, for burpee over bar, I'm going to use fractional plates for one thirty five.

Ackerman:
Right. Yeah.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. You can try to be clever but you're cheating the system and that never helps anybody.

Ackerman:
Yeah. It's the argument I've always had. If you have to game the system that much, you're just not fit enough.

Greg Hammond:
Thank you for playing. Now go home.

Ackerman:
So I've got two quick questions about the rower, but I want you to do me a favor. I want you to explain it to me as if you're trying to explain it to a 5 year old. All right. All right. So here's the challenge. And then about 30 seconds to a minute.

Greg Hammond:
OK.

Ackerman:
OK. So for the listeners out there, one probably one of the most common misconceptions about the rower is that damper.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah.

Ackerman:
OK. As if you're explaining it to a 5 year old. Not because I don't understand. I completely get it. You don't have to explain to me for the benefit of the listeners. The Damper?

Greg Hammond:
Ok. So. This is good. We do this all the time, but it's never easy. So the way that the loading or the drag happens is air gets pulled into the side of the rover and diffused out around the flywheel. That not of air that gets pulled in dictates how much the flywheel slows down between strokes. OK. So in other words, and if you understand inertia, a slower moving weight takes more energy to get spinning fast again.

Greg Hammond:
So depending on how your most efficient you will set your Denver based on your stroke rate and your power output to where you're most efficient. So it's gonna be different for everybody, but everybody should try different drag factors to find out where they most efficient.

Greg Hammond:
We triedFor guys like us who do a lot of it or me, I know where my sweet spot is and that is a drag factor of a 117 to 120 for anything that's about a thousand meters and higher. OK. Based on my I usually run about twenty seven to thirty three strokes a minute. That's where I can ping right along with good form and that's where I get the most meters in my time. Now if you're somebody who may have less cardio and you're a big strong ox and you you think of every stroke as a deadlift, then you can have a really high drag load. And instead of thinking of strokes, you're thinking them as reps and you might do well with that. But anybody who does well with that, with a little bit of cardio would be better off at a lower drag factor so that you're not overcoming that really slow flywheel between strokes.

Ackerman:
Right. So the misconception. I mean, the big misconceptions are that's resistance. And I try that, you know, you explained it well, probably over a few people's heads when you threw the word inertia out there. But I liken it to like bicycle racing. And I tell people it's like you can be in this really high gear that's hard and you're standing and you're climbing or in this low gear like Lance Armstrong and you're spinning. You're both trying to accomplish the same work once, doing a lot more reps to accomplish it. And one is doing less reps. But you're both moving that.

Greg Hammond:
That's that's very good. That's that's that's another way to think of it.

Ackerman:
Do you want me to move to concept 2 to work for you guys to example it?

Greg Hammond:
We tried to get you about 15 years ago? You're a word traveller?

Ackerman:
I'm too small. I'm too small to work at concept 2.

Greg Hammond:
One of the things is that although people think it's confusing and it might be confusing, that it's easily understood if someone's willing to practice. The rower, like they practice their Olympic lifts, you know, all come into class and I'll see people in the back room practicing their snatch. I rarely see somebody on the rower looking at different drag factors and finding out with.

Ackerman:
Are you still their Greg? I think we lost them for a second. Come on back, baby. Come on back. Ya there Greg?.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah, I'm there.

Ackerman:
I'm Sorry. I'm telling you, Colorado, since we moved here, has no Internet and I'm in my house with like the top of the line. So you were saying, you know, get on there, check out different drag tactics,.

Greg Hammond:
Right. For efficiency. And then also not just efficiency at one distance, but at a couple of distances. I mean, we know it as Crossfitters. What we're going to see primarily are gonna be two 50s, five hundreds, one thousands, and then it starts getting less and less up into the 5000 and stuff like that. So it doesn't.

Greg Hammond:
Take that long to find your efficiency, you just need to play around with it a little bit different drag factors. We can help you a little bit on our Web site. We have described or you can call and talk to any one of us because I have the ability now, which is pretty good after being doing it for so long as is look at somebody and see what they're you know, are they more endurance? They more power with their body weight. I can kind of get them close. And even within that, they'll probably want to mess around a little bit, you know, one or two drag factors or points.

Ackerman:
seminarSo let me give you a couple of quick ones. What's the ideal strokes per minute?

Greg Hammond:
So if you go to the Web, sites like twenty seven to thirty three is a very broad. That's what we suggest. Now you are I. Everyone knows you and I are not very tall people. It's going to be different than, say, someone's who's six, six. Just because the length of their leg and the travel that they have on the monorail. You and I are going to bottom out much quicker than somebody with long legs. So we're going to already be coming back for another struggle. They're still finishing their first one just because of the length of their leg. That so, you know, when we give you suggestions on stroke rates, a lot of that's going to be a little bit with a grain of salt, but that's going to be the range. You know, even if you're five feet tall, you probably aren't going to be much higher than like, say, thirty five. And if you're six, eight, you probably won't ever go much lower than you know, or maybe like twenty three, twenty four. And then it's also, too, is like, you know, and you're going to always try to start from a dead stop. You try to get a flywheel spinning as fast as possible. So you might start out with like three or four really quick strokes and then settle into your efficient stroke rating.

Ackerman:
That was one of the best tips I got to think was Angella Heart at that concept 2 seminar that I took. And it's all about Fight Gone Bad. Yeah. And I remember when I first started Fight Gone Bad in like 2007, I can barely get ten to twelve calories in that minute. And then Angela Heart track about getting that flywheel going in and hanging onto it. And now even to this day, you know, easily getting 15 to 20 in that minute, which for me is very good. I think that video is out there. I need to so definitely go, you know, search concept2 fight. Not bad. You probably get a whole bunch of nonsense. But if you can find the Angela Heart video with that check, that's really good.

Greg Hammond:
And then if you just if you Google search, restart like a race driver rowing machine, same thing. And what it was, it'll feel heavy from a dead stop, you know, a couple of hard pulls. And then as you settle into the next two or three strokes, because you're gonna be going you know, it's going to feel lighter. And that's when you really start picking up a little bit more on there. But there's always this misconception that you rode differently for calories versus meters and stuff. And that's all B.S. If you have an efficient rowing stroke and power output for meters, it will represent itself and what it will represent itself in calories at the same time. So rowing well and understand machine is what's going to get you more meters. There's no real way to trick it or gain it. You know, keep in mind you have people making and not making Olympic teams by fractions of seconds over the last 30 years. Somebody would have figured it out. And it's not just going to do the work. That's it.

Ackerman:
I'm going to throw some distances out there and I want you to give me the average damper setting that you would tell people to use. You know, forgetting about all the other factors, just really first thing that comes to your head. All right.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah Okay.

Ackerman:
250m?

Greg Hammond:
You said. But I mean, that's the problem is going to depend on the size of the person.

Ackerman:
No No Just, you know, because,.

Greg Hammond:
Well, we say this. OK. So at two of the shorter the distance, you probably can handle more load.

Ackerman:
connect do conceptRight. That's what I was looking for.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. So because of the fact that when it starts to eat you up, you'll be off. You'll be done. It'll be really quick. And that's if you're just doing the 250. I think all of us have been there. We're we're like, oh, rowwering my jam. You crush it to 50. And the next movement might be pull ups. And you just go there and stare, stare at the bar cause you breathing so heavy you can't can't do it. So that's another reason I say practice. You know, what you do is, you know, even myself and I travel because, oh, Gregs, here from concept 2 let do a rowing workout. What they don't realize it's hard for me to know it. And if you go there and try to just crush the row, it tends to eat you up in other places, too.

Ackerman:
What's your best ever 2km?

Greg Hammond:
Oh, it's not great. It's like a 650. So.

Ackerman:
That's still. I mean, my best is seven eleven. And I trained very hard for that. So it's 650. Still awesome.

Greg Hammond:
So, yeah, I mean, for our height and stuff like that, you know that I I was happy with that. This was you know, this is a crash piece years ago and I actually trained for it for me at my height and my background in sport. I'm just my ski and my rowering times aren't that far off, which is its rarity. It depends on the person and the build that they are and how they generate their power if that happens. But for me, if someone said of the bikeerg or the skierg or row erg what do you prefer? I'm gonna go skiingerg. Every time from the plane on, you know, you always want to do it your better. So, yeah.

Ackerman:
I want to talk about this skier, the bike and how that came about me. Let's finishing up on the Rower. What's the worst workout you can program for somebody on the rower? Exclusively rowing Crossfitters. You're listening to this. And Greg says, you know, one of the longest employees of concept2 this is a workout. Will absolutely trash you. You'll be vomiting. What would it be?

Greg Hammond:
Most meters in a minute. Most mintues in a minute.

Ackerman:
All right. I'm going to do this for the listeners. If you take a picture of that or film yourself and hashtag us, Fern and I, I will pick a winner or we won't pick a winner. Whoever gets the most meters in a minute and we'll send them we'll send them a prize. We'll do one guy, one girl,.

Greg Hammond:
One. The worst for me. The worst word. Crossfit,, though. Anytime you rowing and thrusters. Look, I know these guys have bragged about ever throwing up their stuff and I was one lucky guy. It didn't happen very often. But the one time it happened, we were working with the Marine Corps down in Camp June and we were doing rounds. What was it? It was basically rowing and thrusters. And so you got that same kind of motion going with no break in there. And it hit me like like that was the worst. That for me, something about rowing and thrusters makes me nauseous.

Ackerman:
Well, then, of course, that became the open workout in I think twenty seventeen with the thrusters and rowing and brutal.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah.

Ackerman:
I remember waking up that next day and I was like, I cannot believe how sorry I am from this workout.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. Well I'm then acid baths from that lovely Dubai gave us that. That is probably the most pain I've ever been in.

Ackerman:
What was that?

Greg Hammond:
That's the. So it's you start out on this, right. It's you start out skierg and it's. Five hundred five hundred one thousand five hundred meters. Is that right? Are we going one thousand five hundred five hundred one thousand on the bike? So as fast as you can go through it. OK. So you just start skierg here, hammer out five hundred. Walked us to walk to the road five meters faster. You can really bike for 1000 meters fast this time. If and when you get done, it's the craziest thing. And if you want to see a great video, Hiebert did it with Marsten. This is after Dubai. And what's crazy about it is very represent their own. They're not faking it because it happens to me, too. You'll get done. Go out. Wasn't so bad. And then all the lactic acid just starts to increase. You get panicky and you can't sit in one spot and you've got to move around. Yeah. I mean, it was I thought they were kind of playing it up for the camera cause they're so good at that. And then I did it. No, this is completely legit. If you ask Frazier, you said the same things that people were just like bodies on top of bodies after that event.

Ackerman:
Well, it's just enough of a change in the muscles you're using to stay at that one hundred percent effort. I would imagine. Which is why it hurts so bad.

Greg Hammond:
And the latic acid has no where to go every muscle is worked over the three pieces of equipment. Yeah.

Ackerman:
So, we talked a little bit earlier about how people can kind of figure out, you're right, people will pick up a barbell, practice gymnastics. No one hops on a roller. But let's look at it from the coaches perspective. I think the rower oftentimes, whether it's in the workout or, you know, it's coming in the workout, the coaches are just like, all right, get on the roller. And then during during the actual WOD minimal goes on there, it's like, let's focus on the other pieces. What is what? Some low hanging fruit that a coach can look for to get their athletes better on the roller quickly.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah, that's that's a really that's that's really good because there is it like I tell people we can get you from ugly to decent pretty quickly. Decent to good takes forever.

Ackerman:
You know, it's a skill set. And like you said earlier, like like the queens are going to snatch. It's literally an Olympic sport. Yeah. You know, we don't expect you to become virtuosos in The rower, but like you just said, how can we go from ugly to good?

Greg Hammond:
So. Big thing is people get their hands caught behind their knees. So what they do is they use their hamstrings to pull them up the slide to the to the catch to the flywheel when it should be. Basically, when you're if you're at the catch, which is when you're all balled up at the front. Ready to go. It's legs and the hips opened and the arms come in and then you're at the finish and then it's just the opposite. Then it's arms. Then you lean forward to the hips. That'll put your hands on your knees. And then you're.

Greg Hammond:
Up to the catch. And then you don't get the chain bouncing up and down and all that stuff that makes ugly rowing. That and Crossfitters specifically do is that the catch? They'll start with their shoulders or throw their head and shoulders back thinking that rowing is an upper body movement. They got to wrap their head around it. The first engagement they should have is with their quads. Then their glutes, then their hamstrings or their hip flexors and then the arms. And then that wave. A contraction can continue and be smooth. You see a lot of great pictures of people rowing on Instagram where their shoulders are behind their seat. And they're just basically looks like they're basically throwing their head back when they're starting starting to row. And that's that can be fixed pretty easily with a coach. And this is one where a lot of the knees coming up to really like a coach can literally tactile. You hold their knees down until their hands Crossfit, past their knees and then let them back up. So, you know, you teach level, too. I've taken the level 2 and most people I think are going to learn better with you actually next to them and actually physically putting your hands on them than just trying to talk them through it. They need to feel it so that they get it right.

Ackerman:
A lot of times add a couple of really important things that you said from one. It's a core extremity movement is basically what you're saying. And there's a big reason, you know, back in 0 6 and 0 7 for those that didn't have rollers. You remember what the scaling option was?

Greg Hammond:
Wasn't it? A small deadlift, high pole. Kettlebell. Yeah.

Ackerman:
Yeah, it was for every 10 meters was one Sumo Deadlift High Pull. Well.

Greg Hammond:
Wow. That was a while ago. And that is crazy alright. I do remember that.

Ackerman:
Yeah. So I mean it really is. And I tell it in the expression I use it, I believe I learned it at the concepts 2 seminar with legs, body, arms, arms, body legs. You know, that's what I think about as I do it and I try to explain it. One other thing that I tell people, maybe this is good or bad is, you know, how those two screws on the net,.

Greg Hammond:
The under of their arms tangency.

Ackerman:
Right. So I always try to help people like just low hanging fruit. Hey, keep the chain between those two screws.

Greg Hammond:
That's that's a great idea and also I've done for people is just take some chalk out the chalk bucket, given two lines on that monitor arm station and just say, listen, if you ever find your chain even at intensity coming out of this range, then then tighten the screws, lessen the intensity, get that, get the smoothness down and then start applying force again that change should be level as if you put a level on it no matter. Straight in the machine machine. That's it.

Ackerman:
Yeah. I think, you know, if people are wondering, we often Fern and I try to teach people like, OK, this is great, but how do you see it? It's really a lot of the same things that you would be looking for in a cleaner or the snatch. You are using your elbows bending before the hips open, like you said, are using your shoulders rip back. Are you seeing the change? Shaking is probably the equivalent of that bar's way out in front of the front of plane. So those are just little things you can do. This is a drill that I've used. Tell me if you think it's one of the ones a box owner should do. First of all, I think boxers neglected. Hey, there's rowing in your workout. Spend some time on the rower. Not necessarily every day, but no different than some days when they're snatches. You grab P.V season, some days you don't. But to spend a few minutes there because it can make up for a lot of time. But I like the drill where you keep your arms straight and you only use your legs because that really starts to it's really a deadlift. Then snatch, right is teaching people to stand the ball the way and open their hips. And this is teaching them to use their legs before pulling.

Ackerman:
Did you catch that greg?

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Cut out a of it, I totally got it in your. You're absolutely right. Yeah. If I was coaching a class, basically, you know, is that OK? There's rowing in this workout. Let's just bring a rower out first. We'll use it for a warm up. And as we do our warm up, here's what I want you to think about later in the workout. So you're you're you're completely right. That is that's a great way to do it.

Ackerman:
All right. So let's talk a little bit deeper about concept to itself. I was out there. Remind me of the owners names.

Greg Hammond:
So it's Peter and Dick Dreissigacker,

Ackerman:
So we're out there about this concept2 seminar. We do a team workout. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was like rolling dumbbell thrusters and burpees, I think, and I think was like a minute at each station. And my partner. Another local affiliate owner. And we got this old guy's as our parterner. So it's like the three of us and we're like, God, cool. And he tells me his name is Peter. I'm a crushing. We're yelling at him because he's an older guy. This is now 2009. I mean, he's probably in his mid to late 50s at the time, I guess. Yeah, late probably. And, you know, we're yelling at him like, what does a team competition. But, you know, at the seminar public in two thousand eight, nine, everything was a competition. We wanted a win. They're screaming that this older guy wrap it up, you know, high five, two seconds later, the guy that we're yelling at on stage, introducing himself as the founder of Concept 2. We were like, oh, shit, we just the other guy for the last five minutes. Is that the culture concept 2? Like, it reminds me very much of Ben and Jerry's. And maybe it's that Vermont thing where it's like they're just two guys, you know, that put this together. But at the forefront of the business is, you know, customer service give doing the right things for the employees and ultimately just giving out the best product.

Greg Hammond:
You're exactly right. And no, you ego like these guys. If you came here, if anybody came here and we had the whole company in a room, you wouldn't be able to say, oh, the fact that the tallest guys there. But you know, who's the owner? They don't know. They don't want to do that. And it's they they are engineers and incredibly smart guys. But what's great is they know what they like to do and what they're good at. And they they trust us to do what we're good at and what we like to do. And it's worked out great. They really give you space to kind of kind of work. I mean, they were lucky enough to let me.

Greg Hammond:
I mean, my title is director of Motor and Action Sports and Crossfit,. So they didn't give that to me. They just let me I just. Sounds cool. Does make it so. That's just like they're our culture. It is very much you know, we're in as we all like to do outdoor stuff. I mean, we're here for a reason. It's definitely not the easiest place or the least expensive place to have a business. But it's about quality of life, good employees. It's all, you know, from the founders down. And they're still amazing athletes like they they probably haven't missed one hundred days of training in their lifetime. I mean, these guys are amazing. Still some of the best rowers here. You know, at twice the age of some of the guys that are here, their road in college and whatnot. But yeah, they're they're great. We were at the games one year and this is one of the coolest things. I'm standing next to Peter. And this guy comes back and he's like, hey, I just want to tell you, I just got back from Afghanistan.

Greg Hammond:
And the only thing that kept me sane was your rowing machine. If you ever see the the owners, I really want you to thank them. And I just point to the guy next to him like, well, you just told him that's him right there. And the guy was blown away. I couldn't believe that the owner of the company would be at the games working the booth, handing out chapstick to people and stuff like that. So, you know, they they love our community as much as we do, which is really, really cool.

Greg Hammond:
They they love kind of mentality that comes along with Crossfitters or anybody that wants to better their life through fitness. They really respect that, which, you know, it filters down to all of us as well.

Ackerman:
Yeah. I mean, I can tell you it had an impact on me because that was when I was very new to business ownership. And being an entrepreneur and knowing the same dude that I was yelling at was actually the founder of the company. And he didn't feel the need to tell me. That really changed my outlook. And that's kind of how I tried to run my boxes as I understand whether I might be the owner here. But, you know, I'm just training next to you guys and having fun with you guys.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. And they ask us questions. I mean, they are clearly much smarter than all of us. And yet, if there's a decision to be made there, it's not lip service. They're like, what do you think? You know? And it's it puts a lot more pressure on us to make sure that we are right and we do what we need to do. But, yeah. Well, there's a reason that I've I've been here 20 plus years, so that's awesome.

Ackerman:
I remember somebody asked them where the name concept to came from. And they basically said the second concept of anything is always a little bit better. Is that where it is? That my right about that?

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. You should win like Jeopardy! Trivia question on that because we get that a lot. Because people call all the time. They're like, oh, I've got a I got an old rowing machine. I think it's a concept one or, you know, wins concept three coming out with kind of go through the whole spiel. But yeah. So these guys are great. Like so this year it was they had a prototype six years, 10 years, 15 years before whenever it came out. And they just shelved, they have these, great ideas and they're like, you know what? It's it's good. We think we guy, but we're not going to force it. We're gonna shelf it for a little while. We're going to think about it. We're gonna make sure, you know, it is what we want to do. And then the second one usually, well, it's almost always better, you know, the. Yes, so there's that that and then they always say, do it just because you can do something doesn't mean you shouldn't do something, which is another thing that they do is like, yes, we can do this. But I mean, let's really think about the consequences. Is it going to be beneficial or not beneficial? You know, and then it's that time that you're thinking about it. You know, that slows things down. That really makes you end up with a good product or a good idea or something like that.

Ackerman:
So you mentioned the skier. We talked about the bike earlier. You and I, whenever we probably see each other maybe once or twice a year these days and almost every time we see each other, you remind me that I was the first person to use the skierg in competition. And there's memories of Dave LIPSON just yanking on those arms doing tricep. It's still early Thuder, bro, if you will. But. What role did Crossfit, have on the development of these new pieces of equipment? Would you think if not for Crossfit,, you guys would have just been all in on rowers and it was like, hey, we need to keep up with the market or provide new ways to torture people? Or do you think that eerg and the bike and maybe some other things in the future would have come out anyway?

Greg Hammond:
You know, it's funny and that's another. I love to go in with it. It's one of the things that I've interviewed Peter before and one of the things he's always said is that they've never it when they start make their own machine. They didn't make it. They didn't make it to make money. They made it because they are rowers and they needed some to train on. Their kids are Olympic skiers. They made the skiers so that the kids had something to train on. And then fitness came later and we're all mountain bikers. So we wanted them to play on. So we make the black. So everything is done for sport first for ourselves. And if it's good, we just assume the fitness market will follow it later. So we've never made anything specifically to fit a specific knee. Sure, we think it's going to sell like crazy. I mean, there's probably a bunch of products we could make that would sell more than what we have now. But the thing is to be kind of honest with ourselves and what we're good at. We always look at ourselves first and say, what are we going to do? So, you know, in the summertime, if you're a Nordic skier, you have the roller ski, which is incredibly dangerous on the roads these days.

Greg Hammond:
It's just too many people on cell phones. So we're like, how do we get that stimulus of training in. In the summer when we don't have snow and you can't fly to New Zealand to train? Well, we're gonna make this machine called the skier and we're gonna be able to get, you know, pacing and all the wattage outputs and all that information so that we're ready for when the season starts. The original rower was Peter and Dick. We're training for the Olympics and they're from Connecticut. And, you know, in the winter time, you need some way to train. So they got that. They started selling it to their other friends that that you also were in the same predicament. And then with the now, most of us here likes in the summertime, we want to way over the winter to train for mountain biking. You know, those of us that aren't hard enough on snow bikes and, you know, riding 30 below weather, we just got the bike. So, you know, everyone's like, what's next? What's next? And it's like it depends on what sport we start doing next, I guess is gonna dictate that.

Ackerman:
So you would think you're running out of sports, but I'm sure you're not. What's which is your favorite?

Greg Hammond:
So skierg is. So I raced Nordic skiing in college. So, you know, I kind of had a natural ability to that kind of it was natural to me, more so than than rowing, although we didn't have a skier for half the time I was here. So I was just rowing. I'm trying to get good at the bike. But the problem is, is that our bike is so different than a typical spin bike. So.

Ackerman:
FYI I hate your bike.

Greg Hammond:
Oh thank you.

Ackerman:
I Only use it to warm up and cool down. I hate it. It's so hard to get. To accomplish the same amount of work relative to a rower. In my opinion,.

Greg Hammond:
That that that will that will. I think that will change. The more you use it, what we have people that say that they don't like it is because they're used to a spin bike where the wind will assist in the pedal stroke are like a real mountain bike or outdoor bike where it's clutched. So if you don't put effort in, there's nothing making those pedals go around with you.

Ackerman:
There's no spinning. There's no recovery spin. Like when I used to teach spin class back in the 90s.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. And so it's funny. The guys that like it are the guys they're looking at as a way to increase the strength and muscular endurance of their quads and their cardiovascular system as opposed to. Spinning where it's more of a caloric burn. High temple thing. What's nice is we're getting. Well, there's some road bikers that like it, but most of real high end road bikers, they won't put their bike on the trainer. But we're going to.

Ackerman:
They want to be used to the bike they're gonna train on.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. So we're getting a lot of the mountain bikers and a lot of the downhill mountain bikers and the Enduro Riders where you got to ride up the hill to ride down the hill where they need these really strong, powerful piston like quads and things like that, which fits in great for us because that's what we do. You know, we're you know, there are not a lot of there's not a lot of road cyclists here. We're all Woods guys. And so it works out great for us. And we get to work with some of the best mountain bikers in the world, which is kind of cool. And our machine will also pair with things like Swift and all these suffer fast and these other great cycling apps that you can use as well.

Ackerman:
SuckerFest sounds fun.

Greg Hammond:
It's I mean, it's it's nice having the three I'm lucky. I actually bought all three for my home, so I have three. So doing two is it just breaks it up. If you row for a day, ski for a day like for a day and rotated, you don't really get sick of it.

Ackerman:
Yeah. Just so you know. You know, we live out here and hang with Dave and Camille a lot. Camille did a marathon on Thanksgiving before we went out to dinner between the Rowerr the skiurg and the bike.

Greg Hammond:
Well, it was like you were saying before. I think you'd find even though you say I hate the bike and you'll find your pacing is not. If you put it on pace, your pacing is not that far off. I wouldn't be surprised because you get meters quicker on the bike because there's no recovery. You know, you're just constantly spinning on there.

Ackerman:
Right.

Greg Hammond:
Your time on it, based on your pacing, you'll probably still be between a 150 and 210 to pace. And you know, it's the difference between the bike and say like an airbag with arms is that there's no saving yourself when your quads go, usurer quads go. Yeah. If you're just like there's no leaning into the handlebars and trying to get, you know, get some power out of it. And I find I mean, it's crazy. Their dad did a bunch of intervals on the blaker and I looked down. I swear my quads were bigger than if I squatted. I mean, I had you walk away like you just got off a horse. Because, I mean, you're just legs. You're just blown up. And so I am going to try the rest of the from January till spring to start forcing myself more on the bike and see how it translates to the mountain bike, you know, come come April when I can start getting out on that.

Ackerman:
So I don't want to peak too far behind the curve. So, you know, close it off if you don't want to answer these next two questions. But one, how are we going to see the equivalent of an assault bike from concept2.

Greg Hammond:
No. No. And so to be perfectly fair, we thought about it. But the market's pretty flooded. There's a lot of air bikes out there. I mean, there's the big the big two. I assault an echo. And then coming out of China and Taiwan, there's basically versions of the assault like everywhere. So there was that. And then also there's no sport of air biking. It's like you're never gonna see air is the air biking in the Olympics. And for us, it's worked for us so far.

Greg Hammond:
Stick with sports that people know. And, you know, like like we said, you know, it's it's just not it's a great piece of training tool, but it's not a sport. It's it's it's it's there to elicit a cardiovascular and muscular response, which is great and all that stuff. But we we tend to stick with with with sports, but we also say never say never. You know, it's doable. We know it's doable. People ask us all the time for one. They want our monitor on a bike with arms and make it so it doesn't break like our other stuff. And you know were it is. You know, we're good friends with the road guys and Bill and Katie and stuff like that. And there's no reason to step on toes. And, you know, there's plenty of business out there for everybody. So I think we're good with what we've got now.

Ackerman:
Well, if anybody can take a machine that's terrible and make it worse. I believe it's concept2. Mmm.. in a good way. But that was kind of my other question. And then I think you kind of answered it. You know, rogue. Really? You know, how how impressive our Bill and Ketie you just, you know, incredibly impressive, smart, hardworking people. And one thing they do well is find these products that are working and come up with better, more robust versions. Is it simply your relationship with them? That's like, you know, it's surprising in this day and age that there's not a rogue rower.

Greg Hammond:
Well, I think it's a lot of mutual respect. I mean, Bill and Ketie, you've been out here and believe it or not, even our founders that are much older than Bill, when Bill and our founders talk, I mean, there's a mutual respect. Like, they're amazed. And so why would Bill and Katie have built in a relatively short time? I mean, they're huge. We've been on 40 years and built it lease then 10 can you know here, Bill and Aromas. He was making wooden box jumps and that's it. And still working for the car manufacturers.

Ackerman:
That was the first thing about those rings. Yeah, I saw Bill at the Games this year. Yeah. Hey, was your e-mail body by Jay back in the day? Yeah. How do you know that? He said you were our third customer.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Which is it? And that's the thing is like I mean, we're not the blow smokers like that. But if someone did a basically a biography and I think they will at some time on on what Bill is done and how he's done, because as you and I know him better than most people. I mean, he studies industry. He studies, you know, all you know, Mayor Ford and all these guys that made these great things. I mean, it's not by chance that these guys are that successful. And then he's got, you know, the Batman Robin effect with Katie, who can just do anything, you know, plus, they're family. I mean, there's a reason it's just a great like when we go out to the Rogen Mutational, it's like me going to Disneyland. It's just like fun. You know, everything's gonna work great. You know, your volunteers are gonna do everything just right. And it's just fun to work with those guys. We've had him out here to go skiing and stuff. I mean, they're just our kind of people. Which is which is kind of nice. I think that's that's why it works. And actually, this funny story about their echo bike, when we had our bike, we're like, well, we got to tell Bill and Katie, we're building a bike, you know, it's only fair. We tell them first that they sell a lot of our equipment. So we send it out there in this nondescript box and then we fly out to show them. And so we show them and they look at it and they kind of shake their head and they're like, hey, bring out well, we want to show them and then we're gonna nondescript box. Oh, shit. What's this gonna be? And they showed us the eco bike and we showed them our bike. And then I was like, oh, thank God. And and put arms on it, you know, because we didn't know at the time.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah, but yeah, it's we're lucky. That's a great relationship. And as you know, being at the Games and being a judge and stuff is their ability to hire good people second to none. I mean, they're volunteers. I mean, just there's something about excellence likes excellence or excellence. Where you can find excellence is that, you know, they they're great about even from the guy turning the nuts and bolts to the guy selling the equipment. They do a really good job.

Ackerman:
How many concepts do you think have been sold? What do you know? Well, I just sold that out there. You know, it doesn't matter who paid for, but not how many how many have been built.

Greg Hammond:
So to be honest, I don't know. And we wouldn't necessarily put it out there anyways, but I figure it's grown every year for the past 40 years. So there's a lot of them out there. If you go on our online log book, just the people who are on the online log book are massive numbers that are on there. And you got to figure most not you know, that's a small group of people that you know, as opposed to a web rolling machine that don't use the log book. You know, it's I get a lot of it. You know, how is Crossfit, affected your sales? It's an incredible it's really, really helped out with the other side effect of that is we became cool and it got eyes on our equipment and then even the people that were just really kind of shit on Crossfit,. Who are strength and conditioning coaches. They would take. They would drive our products to you know, we'd see people that I don't like functional fitness. I don't like Crossfit,. Hey, I like that rower or I like that skier. Good idea.

Greg Hammond:
And then we're also you know, I've always been big in the combat sports, boxing and MDMA and stuff like that, where, you know, it takes total body fitness to a whole new level. You need to. You need to have a body that works and responds well to our equipment. They just paralell together and then with the military. Now, every branch of the military gives an option depending on your M.O.s, your job, a rowing equivalent to the run, because they spend so much money training these people that if they get to safety forty five years old and their knees are shot from being deployed for so long. They don't want to, so they want to force them out of the military. They do want to make sure they're fit so they can use the road. So we're getting big on that stuff too. So we're constantly growing it, but we're also not letting it. We're also not letting it cut back on our quality in our normal core values and stuff.

Ackerman:
Yeah. You know, I'm a huge UFC MDMA fan and my biggest cringy type things, you know, think pet peeves is when I see these fighters with these, you know, very well paid trainers using things like their concept to and just everything we talked about earlier changes flying all over the place, like just ripping. And I'm like, how do you guys not know how to use that? Like you're professional athletes? How do you not know better than just getting on the, you know, and ripping it?

Greg Hammond:
That's my that's why I volunteer, because I'm a place like I want to encourage them to use it. I'm proud of they're using it. And so when I go to them, said, hey, you know, thanks for, you know, like Anderson Silver, we worked really close, would be Japan and, you know, even hackle men with Chuck Liddell Fladell. And you say, hey, you know, we can clean up that technique. And they're like, oh, we don't care about technique. We're just trying to elicit a cardiac response.

Ackerman:
But it could get better if you had better technique.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Like I get that. But but then again, so I went to I was lucky enough when B.J. was training and this was after you were still doing some Crossfit,, but it was with Marv Marinovich. And I got to go out to a training camp in California with the with the Penn brothers. So B.J. and J.D. is older brother. And so I got to actually train with them at ruka, which was like a highlight to me working at concert, too. And I was kind of shitting on all these kind of weird ideas they had until I did it. Like he would do things where he would put the front end of the row or up about six inches. So that when he was coming up to the catch him, he use his hamstrings, hamstrings and his core and he would use like gey material on the handles to hold.

Ackerman:
So it was right to really grip material. So was working on grip strength, you know. And so I'm watching him doing Hendel.. This is stupid. And then he had me do it like, oh, wait, this is not stupid. This is pretty cool, you know? And then he did the same thing with the skiers. They would take the handles off and put your material on there some times. And then he would do things where he would be on a balance board or standing on these cylindrical tubes so that it wasn't just about power. When you have great foot placement on the ground, who was having power when you leave were out of balance a little bit. So, I mean, that's one of the great things about my job is I talk to trainers from all over the world. So I've really gotten good about not placing judgment until I go and try it. And I see what they're talking about. Because, I mean, as you know, being a health science guy to is everything we've learned back in the late 90s has gone 180 or even 360 from what we learned over the years. I mean, I grew up in health science. When you still kabulov it, you know, it's like, you know, things changed.

Ackerman:
So, yeah, you don't need to eat blow pasta of the night before a marathon. Yeah. Well,.

Greg Hammond:
I mean that's that's the worst stuff they taught us back then.

Ackerman:
So. Yeah. Well, I told you we'd only be on for 30 minutes and here we are almost an hour. But let me ask you one more one last question, Greg. You know, we kicked off this show. And I think, you know, if you've not seen Greg, like I said, he's if there's ever a rowing event in any big of that, these things. He's the one running around checking the monitors, doing all that stuff. I don't think can correct me if I'm wrong. We've ever had an issue at the Games, but what has been like the worst nightmare scenario for you in competition? Maybe it actually happened and something went wrong or you thought it was going to go wrong and you know, the rain stayed away or you fixed it so well since a match.

Greg Hammond:
Dave and Camille, unfortunately, Camille was the one mistake at the games. And it was. We're in the tennis stadium.

Ackerman:
That's right. I remember this now.

Greg Hammond:
I was sitting in the front row watching it and at the time. So we had this way to put the monitors in this twelve hour, no time out mode so that they don't time out. And we don't give that out to everybody because, you know, the batters get used more. But in competition now you when you see me, you're out on the floor pushing buttons beforehand. That's what I'm doing. I'm making sure that they don't turn off during the competition. Well, this was at the games before we had that feature. So judges were instructed to and you might have been on the floor, but probably.

Ackerman:
This was during the marathon, right?

Greg Hammond:
No, no. This is way back. This was probably first year at Carson at the game.

Ackerman:
I don't think I was judge. I was there, but I wasn't judging that year yet.

Greg Hammond:
But so we said, OK. So the thing was, there was a two minute timeout on the monitors. So depending on if it's Rory or whoever is on the microphone and they're starting to talk, all the judges have the light up the monitors so that when the athletes walked up and started to row, they were ready to go.

Greg Hammond:
I watch all the judges do it except for one. And I'm just out of yelling, reach to this judge and he's looking around. I don't know.

Ackerman:
Id to love it. We got to go back and find it because I'm sure I know this person.

Greg Hammond:
So the problem was.

Ackerman:
It's probably Fern's, by the way.

Greg Hammond:
It talks a little too long. Camille goes to go take her first pull. And just as she pulls, the monitor goes out. She puts the handle down freaks out, for example. Yeah. You know, and so Dave looks up at me. I frickin jump over the concrete. Go down. We swap out the rower really quick. She's off and going. What would have happened if she had just kept wrong as it would have lit up on its own?

Ackerman:
And it catches up, right?

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so even so, the old monitors, you'd have the logo that would come up in. It was slow to come up. But what people don't realize is as that logo is coming up, it's still keeping track. It catches up.

Ackerman:
I can't tell you the number of times in classes I've been like. Just go. It's going to catch up.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. No. And it's in now and it's not even an issue now. And the 5PM finds an instant laid up. And I think if you do a firmware update on your p.m. 3s, it does the same thing we've got way with the little logo that's in there. So unfortunately and I'm good friends like you with Dave's cameo finish, the word got everything was fine. All that stuff. I went right to Dave and like Man Hunt. Sorry to hear that, Dave. Difficult, Dave. You know, he's like everybody, man. It's OK. Okay. And then the other you. The marathon row. It wouldn't in the stadium where we had the false start, that one that freaked me out because the false start.

Ackerman:
Two years ago called marathon full marathon,.

Greg Hammond:
The false start kind of set at this little wave of it took a while to reset. And of course, Dave comes over to me and he's like, Dave. It really was Greg. How long is this going to take to fix? And I just turned to my computer, guys, and I said, how long is this effort to get in and fix that? It was OK. But then it was such a long event that they were sweating so much that Frazier, who was a friend of mine from Vermont, friend of ours, and I looked down and all the cables are under his mat. And he's sweat so much that these cables were probably good half inch under sweat and water. And I just the whole three hours, I was panicky. I was like, water is gonna get into one of these cables and it's gonna. Can you imagine being, you know, ten minutes from finishing your marathon? The whole system blinked out, but we made it through there. And after a couple of beers, after I calm down. So it's OK.

Ackerman:
For the record, I think it was more than just sweat. I think there was a little bit of urine mixed in there, Greg.

Greg Hammond:
I fought that. So I was like, no way. I've done marathons. A lot of marathons here. I've never had to pee myself doing a marathon. So I'm like, everyone's just saying that to be funny. I'm in a I'm in an elevator. I won't say who it's with. There's this woman in there and she's like, oh, sorry about all the machines and all of this. I said, yeah, but it really wasn't. And she was oh, no one was my daughter. And she did. So she confirmed it had at least one female athlete, did pee on the machine so ya,.

Ackerman:
I was on the last seat of judging and I had to then help clean up. Let me tell you, there's plenty of pee on that competition floor.

Greg Hammond:
That's right.

Ackerman:
Yeah. All right. Well, you know, I've kept you very long here. Speak to the coaches, last thing I want to ask for boxers to coaches. What's the importance and what's going to be the impact of Concept 2 on the Crossfit, world?

Greg Hammond:
What's the impact been been made? I think what if I want to get across to them is that, you know, we are we are them. You know, we are Crossfitters. We are people who work all the time. And if you ever need anything, we literally are an 800 number phone call away. That's what's so rare about us. You know, luckily, Roeg is the same way. But if there's anything, do anything, we have to go to the Internet to find out what the issue is. Just call us and talk to us and know and we'll we'll fix you up. And like I said, a lot like Roeg. I think we're really good at hiring, really motivated, nice people. And you're always going to get somebody that can help you. And if we can't, we'll find a way to do it. So that's that's the big thing. I guess the take away from the whole thing. You and I were both at the affiliate fifteen year plus meeting out there, and I do like the direction it's going with health and wellness. And that's kind of where we where we started in. And, you know, I don't I don't see it. It might change the competition side, but there's always gonna be people in gyms using our equipment to better their lives. And that's kind of where we put our stock. You know, it's like we want those people.

Ackerman:
So, yeah, it was really cool just over the years from 2006, 2007. You know, this day and age, you look at any global gym, any hotel gym, and you kind of see Crossfit, equipment there. Now, you know, some kettlebell is the medicine balls, etc. And I remember one of the first pieces of equipment I started to see or concept 2 rowers. And it's you know, whenever I show up somewhere, there's a concept to Rower, at least not, you know, that I can do the most devastating workout, my least favorite workout in all of Crossfit,,2k row. So, you know, it's it's always nice to see a concept to Reller at hotels. I've been on cruise ships like you've been on. And, you know, the concept 2 is there. And, you know, you can always get a good workout.

Greg Hammond:
And that's one thing, too. So people realize, because they don't really go to our Web site much as go to our Web site because we have to have a rower finder so you can put in a zip code and it will show you all the gyms and the hotels and all the role machines that are around you. So we do these challenges. Lot of people that travel will pick their hotels based on where our machines are, which is great. We're in the middle of our holiday challenge right now. So we have a lot of people doing that if they don't have access to the Web. They'll call us up and say, hey, can you find me the closest rowing machine in a lot of times?

Greg Hammond:
This is what's great about the Crossfit, community. This can be non Crossfitters. They could be just rowers. I'm like, you know what? There's an affiliate that's right. By your hotel. I guarantee you, they have our equipment. And if you just say, listen, can I pay you something or buy a t shirt just a row on the rowwering machine for an hour. I don't think I've ever had an affiliate say no to anybody. No, come on and do it. And so, you know, if someone goes back and they said, hey, thanks for sending me that affiliate, that owner was really awesome, you know, I mean, I take note of that. Like, that guy's got our back. You know, that's kind of cool. And that means a lot to us.

Ackerman:
That's really awesome. And that's you know, again, it's the culture from the founders to you guys, you know, to the Crossfit, community. It's really awesome. I appreciate you staying on for so long. I have a whole list of more questions I'd love to get at, but we'll look we'll call it an episode there. And I'd love to get you back on the show in the new year.

Greg Hammond:
I'd like to see. Next time you go home, if you ever go back to Albany, come by here. We'll do an in-house one. Now, we don't worry about the Internet connection or anything like that. But, you know, your always loved and welcomed here in Vermont anytime.

Ackerman:
I would love to do that. I'm hesitant because I know you guys put me through the ringer, but I think it'd be a lot of fun. And I'll probably see then a couple months in Madison, Wisconsin.

Greg Hammond:
I'll see you in Madison, if not sooner, or it'll be an event somewhere. But you're always in judgment until it's funny. You always got your game fixed. I got to get to you when you're not actually on the floor.

Ackerman:
Well, you have typically well, you have multiple events these days with the Masters and the teams, I'm sure. But I know in years past it's kind of we've alluded to it's like, well, we got through it. Now I get to enjoy myself, but I'm sure, you know, in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty you have the concept 2s and the skiers and the bikes and so many events say you're kind of dialed in for the entire weekend yourself.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah. Well, we appreciate it. Thanks for even offering to do this. I'm flattered. It's, you know. Hey, just a concept2 employ. I I'm not sure I'm worthy of a podcast, but thanks.

Ackerman:
Well, based on your title that you gave yourself more than worthy for those listening go support concept2 you. I'm sure you guys already do. But like Greg said, Fenian anything. They're a bunch of great people. Go reach out to them and they're going to take care of you. Thank you very much, Friend.

Greg Hammond:
Yeah, no problem Jay.

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