143. Yuri Feito | CrossFit Health

143. Yuri Feito | CrossFit Health


On today’s episode, Fern sits down with Yuri Feito, who is an associate professor in the Department of Exercise, Science and Sports Management at Kennesaw State. He’s published “A 4-Year Analysis of the Incidence of Injuries Among CrossFit-Trained Participants” in the Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine.  A four-year analysis of the incidents of injuries amongst Crossfit trained participants, which is the longest one ever.
In 2014 got turned over 5 times from publishing the paper because it had the word Crossfit in it and no one wanted to be involved with it. Yuri is a strong advocate for not only Crossfit but just movement itself.  They dive into public health, Crossfit injuries, exercise studies can be trusted and much more topics.

Time Stamps:
(2:20) Yuri Feito Background
(6:55) Clinic work – using high intensity before it was a thing
(11:23) Administration Side
(13:44) Finding Crossfit/ Mike G
(15:45) Working in Public Health, can it be changed?
(21:28) Crossfit 2012
(24:26) Yuri taking the Level 1
(29:35) Yuri Study on injury rates and Crossfit
(42:10) Difference between Injury rate and prevalence rate.
(48:03) limitation of the studies/their studies finding
(51:17) Defining injury 
(58:52) “Traditional resistance” training defined
(1:00:00) The most dangerous sport
(1:03:10) A surprising finding in the studies 
(1:10:20) Projects coming up

Twitter: @DrFeito

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Fern:
All right, everybody, welcome back to the best hour of their day Fern here. I'm really excited about this one, this episode. I am here with Yuri Feito, who is an associate professor at Department of in the Department of Exercise, Science and Sports Management at Kennesaw State. And Yuri came really, really highly recommended from Professor or Dr. Nathan Jenkins and Mike G, who have both been on the podcast before, and they both a bit like beating me to death, like. You got to talk to Yuri is the guy. So a lot of what we're gonna talk about today in the episode is going to be some of the stuff that he's done before we get into that man. I know you're a busy guy. I know anybody who works in academia has a lot of stuff to do. So thank you for your time. I appreciate coming on.

Yuri Feito:
Thanks for you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to talk science and to talk with the community. And, you know, if I get every every little bit helps. For all of us. Right. We as academics, serve always our fault, you know, kind of behind the desk, if you will. But the truth of the matter is, you know, the at the the affiliates. That's where the magic happens. Right. So I'm fortunate enough that I could do I do what I do. And. And the affiliates help me. And I hopefully help the affiliates in any way. So I'm glad that I could have this opportunity. So thank you guys for inviting me in and having me as well.

Fern:
Yeah, it's, um, it's really I think it's really cool for me specifically because I've been in the community so long to be able to get to chat and get to know folks like you because realistically, like you, like guys like you and guys like Nate or kind of like unicorns in the Crossfit, community, because in the sense that like Crossfit, has largely been kind of like treated like the stepchild within the fitness industry where they're like, it's not legit, there's no science behind it. It's just it's just nonsense. But to really see that there are academics who are not only kind of like doing work on Crossfit, and doing and doing studies and doing research on it, but ah but are actually in the community itself I think is really, really cool to see.

Fern:
And we're starting to see more of that. We're starting to see more physicians get into it. And I think our our goal with the podcast in these conversations is to highlight folks like that, bring your knowledge to the community as broadly as we can.

Fern:
So I think this is really, really cool stuff. But what is what's your background like? We're like Grown-Up sports wise or training wise? Like what? Like, how did you how did you kind of get to this point, I guess?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. I mean, I think my my background is kind of a little bit of of of a lot of things. You know, I played soccer all along when I was growing up, so I was always into sports. You know, and I was always interested in being active and and, you know, exercising and all that sort of thing. And then when I decided that, you know, after high school, I wanted to I knew I wanted to go into sports. And they just matter of, you know, trying to get there. Right. So the closest thing to me at the time was athletic training, just because I knew that, you know, having you know, being an athlete, you always get heart, right. So you always have an athletic trainer or PTO or doctor, if you're lucky enough, that could kind of help you along the way. So it really was just starting with athletic training and then kind of went from their athletic training program that was that required us to do. I think it was, you know, somewhere around a thousand hours.

Yuri Feito:
The first semester that you were in on campus, you kind of just get to the athletic training lab and kind of just.

Fern:
That A lot of hours.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, it was it was intense. It was intense. And I was working full time. I kind of put myself through school. So I said, you know what? I can't do that right now. I don't have the time. And it might have been a hundred know. But.

Fern:
Either way, it's not just not some change, you know,.

Yuri Feito:
That it wasn't an you know, it wasn't three hundred hours internship that you kind of just get done within, you know, a couple of months, you know. I mean, I literally was the whole term. So I went back to my advisor and said, listen, I can do twelve on your hours, whatever it was. And I said, okay, well you have two options. You could either change your major and go to a science or change a major altogether. Also, well, I'm not going to change, I'm going to be going to finance or I mean nothing wrong with finance, but my interest was in exercise. So I ended up one exercise science. I went there and exercise science route in that program. You don't have to do you have to do an internship at the end. But, you know, after three and a half years or whatever, you can just work it out. You know, it's easier to do. So anyway, I ended up doing that. So I got a bachelor's in exercise science again, really interested in that exercise piece access physiology part within that program. I got interested in clinical physiology. So we worked with cardiac and pulmonary disease, diabetes. You know, ten years ago it wasn't it was a big deal, but it wasn't such a big deal as it is today.

Yuri Feito:
Right.

Fern:
Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
You know, so it was interesting to me that I could kind of get into that population. And as an athlete. I knew athletes really had all the help they could really get. You mean like as an athlete, you go to the athletic training room, you got trainers, you got Petey's, you got doctors and all that stuff. But what about I always think of this? So, you know, what about the grandma that broke her hip or broke her shoulder or whatever? You know, how do you get those people to we have enough fast enough so that they could have good quality of life. You know what? Two thousand in what? 2000/2001 Crossfit, really wasn't a thing yet. Right. So we're kind of trying to figure things out. It was totally different back then. So all we had was medical fitness programs at a hospital setting that, you know, you kind of just went in and did the rehab and then kind of went on your own. That was interesting to me that, you know, that you could have that that significant impact on someone's family member or significant other at that state, specifically people who who, you know, had bypass surgery or a heart attack or something like that, which most of the time are terrified, you know. So that kind of led me to somewhat of a clinical path, really working with those people I worked, you know, from. From your typical, quote unquote, obese, overly overweight individual to, you know, athletes with heart transplants and pulmonary and lung transplants. So you kind of just a gamut of that. And then somewhere in the middle, there was a an administrator of a medical fitness center.

Yuri Feito:
I decided I wanted to kind of get a different approach, different view of what I was doing and decided to go in and get a master's in public health.

Fern:
Ok. So that must be frightening to know the answer I don't know.

Fern:
Let's save that for separate Podcast

Yuri Feito:
. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We could definitely have a lengthy discussion about that, but that kind of broaden that horizon. Right, because, you know, for me it was all exercise, exercise, exercise. And all of the sudden you're like so on the clinical side.

Fern:
So what is kind of your role before you kind of transition to a more the administrative side of house? What clinically, what are you doing with some of these patients? Is it like a low level, like PT?

Yuri Feito:
A kind of sort of was a funny enough. I worked with a nurse who was extremely conservative. And, you know, we both had no case loads and we sort of managed are different athletes or patients in the case. And we have a pretty heavy load, right. From a patient standpoint. They used to come into rehab and we used to it was cardiac rehabilitation for the most part. So so, yeah, we should train them just like if they were coming to physical therapy, put them on treadmills, bikes, weight training. That's why.

Fern:
Stress tests and stuff like that?

Yuri Feito:
Yupe We discuss testing and all that. And funny enough, most of my patients, the people that I kind of just had my caseload, I always train them about a higher intensity than she did. I had absolutely no data to support this, but I know that I had better outcomes and in some ways somewhat her patients, because I was willing to to, you know, to do, you know, back then do high intensity training or high intensity interval training, you know. So even back then, I was doing my own methodology. If you were up. But I was an academic than I was. I was you know, my my purpose was outcome measures and the patient's not data collection.

Fern:
Got it.

Yuri Feito:
I wish I would have collected all that data back then, because I know, you know, we wouldn't be talking about hopefully higher intensity a little bit earlier. But also, you know, it was just kind of trying to get these people to go back to their regular activities after a cardiac event or or a pulmonary event. You know, the pulmonary patients were harder because they don't really get better. We just manage symptoms a little bit better.

Fern:
Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
You know, and you kind of just went from there and then, you know, trying to do with diabetes, education, educating people on what's going on and what's.

Fern:
It's Definitely come a long way. For instance like my mom had a hip replacement yesterday and my mom was on all she's like 64. But, you know, the protocol at that point now is like they walk with an hourglass yet within hours. I don't even know if that's you know, that was like a couple of days there. Like, you know, like when she gets to the recovery room, like we're going to get her standing and walking,

Yuri Feito:
Yupe,.

Fern:
Like cause I asked my dad is like, when did you start? He's like three hours. I was like, she's in surgery now, isn't she? He's like he's like getting her in there, like, immediately. Okay, well, that's good. I'm I'm cool with that. It's great.

Yuri Feito:
It was pretty similar with you know, it was the same with cardiac patients. You know, when when you had bypass surgery, you know, many years ago, you would be in the hospital for a week. And, you know, nowadays you had bypass surgery. And within probably if you don't have any complications, you may be going home the next day. Yeah, which is extremely frightening for a lot of people because all of a sudden you go home and you have this crack in your chest. Every time you move, you can feel that chest move. You know, and you know, it takes time. Right. It's just. I mean, basically break a ball. And so it takes six to eight weeks for that bone to heal in your six to eight weeks or you're frightening to do anything that is.

Fern:
I have had the the opportunity to scrub in for a quadruple bypass. So my oh, my ankle was a premier cardiac thoracic surgeon and our cardio thoracic surgeon. And I went in. And I don't think people realize the invasiveness of that surgery. I mean, it is all just your whole chest cavity is open like that. I mean, it is like crazy to see it. But it was the same thing. He was like. Yeah. He's like, we're gonna have this guy up and moving in the next 36 hours. And I was like, yeah, he's gonna be pissed.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, absolutely . And you know, and I mean, and extreme credit to them, you know, they're they have a job to do and they get in there and then they have one thing in mind. So it's not like they're gentle. I mean, like all of that and move and pry and it's like, wow.

Fern:
Yeah, it's it's it's alarmingly aggressive. If you've if if you've never seen it before, you're like, oh, like a doctor's on tables with like what. Look like tools. Like hammers. Oh yeah. For sure. It's crazy. So how long how long are you in that clinical setting before you transition to kind of the administrative side.

Yuri Feito:
So I was in there. I was doing that for about four years and then I did a little bit. I mean, administration was about two and a half, three years that I was coordinator in that environment. I had a general manager kind of just sort of leading that that work. And then I was managing a fitness center as well. So it was kind of all encompassing.

Fern:
Okay.

Yuri Feito:
So it's a little bit of everything. And then somewhere along the way, I ended up doing the master's in public health, which again, give me a broad understanding of what health care was, which was mind blowing. And, you know, and after something, it was about seven, eight years. I just got tired of it. I was just I needed to do something different. And I decided I was always going to go get a terminal degree. And that's kind of transition period. I was like finishing my mph and going into a doctoral program. And, you know, that was 2007. So I did that in three years. Got out and kind of just was doing something totally, completely different. My doctor would work. I mean, my my interest was more about merging that public health component that, you know, sort of overall health and that exercise and trying to put it in the middle so that people would understand the benefits of exercise and and physical activity as a whole as as a measurement to improve health outcomes. You know, today we talk about all the time, but, you know, over time, you know, we we didn't have physical activity guidelines. We didn't we just had some things. But, you know, 20 years later, we have all the stuff that we know about. Right. So it's it's beautiful science and it's always evolving, always learning something new. So then, you know, I was doing physical activity, monitoring for the day for about five years. That's all off my gradual work, my terminal degrees in physical activity, monitoring accelerometers, pedometers. That's one thing. And then after I did that for about four years, I just got bored. And the reality is I met my Mike G. And I tell him all the time. And I he changed the path of my professional career. That's cool. And so so it's really interesting to me and exciting the fact that, you know, we as as academics or faculty could change students life. But so kind of student change our perspective and our area of expertise.

Fern:
And was one of your students.

Yuri Feito:
He Was.

Fern:
Now I'm putting that connection He never said that, but OK, got it. All right. Yeah, I was I worked with him pretty frequently when he was going through his graduate program. And I mean, he's he's a he's a fit dude, but I don't think people give him credit for how intelligent he is. Like.

Yuri Feito:
He's super smart. Yeah. Yeah, he definitely gets a definite get. And his pursuing the same thing. He's been in graduate school. He's got two master's degrees and from leading institution. So I mean, he's definitely a smart dude. And you know, and that was the beginning of my sort of introduction to Crossfit,. You know, this is back in 2012. OK. So it was kind of getting popular. But, you know, it was in the in the heels of, you know, kind of just starting me moved to Kennesaw. He was there. He was finishing his undergrad. I got a I had an interest in what this Crossfit, thing was because I heard of it before and I had a couple of friends that were doing it. But I really didn't know. And as a skeptic, as a natural skeptic, I was just like, what the hell is all this nonsense? And I know I'm honest about it. I mean, I didn't I didn't know. You know, I've never seen it. And I was in the fitness industry, you know. But I was in a different sort of had different mindset. Yeah, I moved to Kennison. He was there and we connected right away. And he you know, he showed me around. He told me what it was. And he really gave me a good understanding of the whole thing. And I was like, OK, this is cool. This is interesting.

Fern:
You're lucky that he was your was with you in that introduction.

Yuri Feito:
Oh, absolutely.

Fern:
And I feel the same way. So I kind of came up under Pat Sherwood and Joe Alexander, who are both uber intelligent as well. I always like I will never discount like that was just pure luck. Like sometimes you just get lucky to just fall under, like, the right people. And I was very fortunate to to walk into that gym. So I do have a question, though. What's your.

Fern:
Having worked in public health because because Coach Glassman,, he has he's he has said in the past he has no hope for health like zero he'd like it doesn't even. But what's your thoughts, having worked in the system for some duration, like do you do you feel that that's something that can be changed and this is that this is kind of a rabbit hole. We don't have to go all the way down. But just be curious. Your general thoughts on it?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, I mean, I think I think it's going to require a lot. I think public health is a it's a conglomerate of a lot of things. Right. It's not just physical activity is is there's a lot of things. Right. And within public health, within public health itself, there's so many other things. Right. When you talk about public health, you're talking about the magazines, you talk about exercise, you better run in some some silly level, some shape or form nutrition. You talk about access to health care. You talk about there's so many things that are sort of encompassed in this public health umbrella. Right. And the reality is that it's almost impossible for us to to address everything in any particular point in time just because, you know, we're working with people. We're not working with rats. Right. So, you know, you work with an animal. You whether it's a rat or mice or whatever. And pretty much you can make them do whatever you want. You know, humans are different, right? If we're doing a study, you can't whether you're studying or you're trying to get into a behavioral component. You may never get them to do what you want them to do. Right. So I don't know that we will ever get to a point where we have the answers to every public health issue and in the end, the US or the world.

Yuri Feito:
I think we've made tremendous strides in that area over time. I mean, you know. Climate change is a it's a public health issue, right?

Fern:
Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
And how many hours you could spend talking about does it exist? Does not exist. Is it this? Is it not? No, that's not. This rabbit hole whatsoever. Right. Yeah. But the idea is that that's still part of of that. So.

Fern:
Got it.

Yuri Feito:
How does that impact what we do. And you know, in some way it does. I think that from if we just keep it narrow to what sort of our focus. Right. From a fitness physical activity standpoint, in some ways we're making strides. In some ways we're not. Yeah. You know, we we have more access to, you know, park spaces. We're much more aware about the implications of sedimentarism. So there are those messages that are getting across. But at the same time, we have more people that are not following those messages and continue to eat whatever they want. And then that's leading those numbers, you know?

Yuri Feito:
I mean, so, yeah, it is a sort of balance.

Fern:
It's a strange it's a strange scenario that I feel like there's never been more emphasis on health than currently today. But the trend does not follow that awareness. The trend actually goes the other direction. Right. And it's a little I have this we always have this theory that that nothing will truly happen within the system. And so there is almost a completely like secular society where there's nobody in the middle. There's just chronically ill and really fit. And there will literally be nobody that exists in between. You're either you're either healthy or dying. Yeah. And I don't know how far we are away from that, but I feel like it's probably not that far.

Yuri Feito:
To be honest with you and you, I think I'm absolutely right. I think there's definitely, you know. And the reality is that in some ways, you know, we want to be everything to everyone. Right. And and we really can. Yeah. We've done a fantastic job from a medical standpoint, you know, for to take care of the sick. And we have we've done fantastic, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, you had a heart attack. And I expect to see after that was relatively small. Today you have a heart attack and you you could live another 50 years. You may die of something completely different.

Fern:
I've got a 65 year old in here. She's got a pacemaker in air, but she's in there every day getting after she looks awake, she snatches you clean and jerk. She's like, I fired. Today is like, you're my hero, Susan. Like you're you're who I want to be when I grew up.

Yuri Feito:
Right. Exactly. You know, and, you know, couple of weeks ago, it was the unfortunate event. I can't remember the the athlete's name who was like 18 or 20 or 20 years old. And he was one of the Crossfit, athletes and.

Fern:
Oh, yeah, I Volvo. But he had a heart issue.

Yuri Feito:
But yeah, there was a valve replacement.

Fern:
That's right. Yep.

Yuri Feito:
In, you know, 98 percent. And, you know, it's a complete I'm fortunate I'm not educated enough to talk about the case. But, you know, for the most part, valve replacement is relatively simple. And, you know, the outcomes are extremely positive. So you have all this whole dichotomy of of all that. So. But again, I think to answer the question, can we are we ever going to get to a point where we have it all under control? I think is almost impossible to say really to to even consider that we will.

Fern:
Yes. Yeah. I never get what I consider an optimistic answer and just kind of like just frames your outlook. I don't blame anybody for that is like I just like sometimes I'm just like somebody say something positive, you know? But it is what it is. But that's what I think kind of. Crossfit, and Coach Glassman, whole whole reason for existing at this point is is the kind of fight that fight. So as far as Crossfit,, how so how long have you been doing Crossfit,? So like 2012 ish when you kind of started.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah I would say about 2012 kind of just started you know ball. I started digging into it about 2011, 2010 and then really get into it. Once I met Mike in 2012 and really was just I couldn't read enough. I mean it was just everything. You know what was fitness? I mean, just to the general basic stuff that that we had at the time, which was fantastic. And then, you know, it kind of just created this dichotomy in my head is like, well, this is what I know from the textbooks. Right. This is what I've always studied. I get it. I understand it. And then this is what Crossfit, is saying, which I also get and I could put together. But the application of it's totally different. You know, I still remember my first workout and I went through the I went to the I had this great facility and this great guy who's here in Kennesaw. I went to the gym and it was a great facility, walked in. And, you know, my first workout was Randy.

Fern:
Oh,.

Yuri Feito:
I will Forget. I would never forget. Oh, I wouldn't forget that either.

Fern:
Seventy five snatched.

Yuri Feito:
So, you know, I was pretty fit at the time, you know, and was. I could do that. I mean, I had done stances before. I mean, I. Whatever.

Fern:
That's everybody rection workout like how bad can it be?

Yuri Feito:
Right. Exactly. I didn't know anything. That's how bad was. I started with 75 pounds. And I think I did about, I don't know, probably about fifteen. And I said, holy shit, what am I doing here? And I remember vividly because there was two girls I was in the only I was in the class with two girls. One was, I don't know, maybe a buck 10 and like five foot. And the other was about buck 20 and 5'4. And I got nothing against women, nothing ever against thin women, fit women at all. But, you know, I walked in and I was like a pretty strong guy. I worked out. I got my ass kicked. I ended up I think I ended up my, you know, my last 30 reps. I was struggling with the bar because I pull the weight off because I just couldn't. You know, in that moment. I went home and I'm sure. Just like everybody else has their first workout out of decision to make. I was either all in or all out.

Fern:
Yeah, that's pretty much how it works.

Yuri Feito:
You know what I mean?

Fern:
You remember how long it took.

Yuri Feito:
Oh, gosh. I think it took me probably like 20 minutes.

Fern:
That sounds like my my first workout was J.T., which is twenty nine handstand, push up, drip ring and push up. It took me thirty seven minutes.

Yuri Feito:
Oh. Oh. I'm impressed You were able to do the handstand push ups altogether.

Fern:
I mean I mean I in my mind how I can imagine what I thought it looked like but I probably looked nothing like what I thought I was probably like an a c shape backward and horrific, like overextended.

Yuri Feito:
Overextended. So, I mean, it was it was a. And then from that day forward, it was just kind of one of those things. So I just couldn't read enough. You know, there was there wasn't enough. There wasn't enough out there.

Fern:
Have you taken a Level 1 course?

Yuri Feito:
I have.

Fern:
OK, cool. It's always I was. What do you think of the course?

Yuri Feito:
I though was fantastic.

Fern:
Cool.

Yuri Feito:
You know, I had multiple I have multiple certifications from other organizations. And, you know, I've been in academia for, you know, a number of years. And, you know, I teach some of this stuff in in our in our courses.

Yuri Feito:
And I honestly thought that it was an extremely well-done course. I had really good instructors. The level one structures are top notch, you know, and the content itself was very well where we'll put together. Yes. Well, as very practical. Right. So I'm looking it from both sides. Right. So I'm looking at us as an academic. Is this information accurate? Absolutely was. But not only that, is it how is it applicable to the general population? Right. So you could break it down how we want you to scale it, how we want. I usually say that it's definitely not for everyone, but everybody can do it.

Fern:
That's that's a very that's a very succinct way to describe it.

Yuri Feito:
It's the best way that I could put it. Right. I mean. And the other one was was very enlightening from an application standpoint. You know, if you have nothing else, if you have absolutely no background, it gets you to the next level. Does that does that. That certification make you a good coach? We could debate that. You know,.

Fern:
I'm gonna go out on lim and Say no. It's like it's the first step of many if you want to be considered a good coach. Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
Exactly. But you know. But it gives you it gives you if you don't have anything else, it gives you a background and a very solid base. But, you know, I agree. A hundred percent, if you really want to be a good coach, you've got to develop. You've got to continue to not only just working with people and how you work with people, but you've got to continue to learn those concepts, you know? I mean, you spend months and, you know, I spent years studying glycolysis and metabolic pathways. Do you need to know every single enzyme that comes along that way? No, absolutely not. But you need to be able to understand how things work. And L-1 does a good job introducing that.

Fern:
Yeah. It's I think it's unbiased. Obviously, I work for the company and get to the good the privilege to deliver that information. But I do think it is one of the better introductions that I've ever had to fitness in general, which is like this is the methodology. Here is how you apply it. And not only here's how you apply it, but I think people don't give that level one credit for. Here's how you can misapply it. And don't and don't be confused about that. You can do. You can take this thing off the rails just like you can with anything. And I think people kind of like skip right over that. And they're like, no, no, that's important. Part of this whole this whole thing is like, don't misapply the program. Otherwise, it's not the same program.

Yuri Feito:
For Sure I think. And I think, you know, you hit in the head when you said that, you know, you've got to dive deeper to be a good coach. And again, this is just, you know, a bias, if you will. And there's. Again, it's. I've had many conversations and to me is it's another natural selection process. Right. Good coaches, good boxes are going to remain and the other ones will make some money and then kind of walk out of the community just because it's it's the law of numbers, right, that you can't be you can't be successful in a saturated market. Right. So what's going to make you what's gonna make you good? What's going to make your programming, your your box, your community? What's that? You've got to put time into that. So the idea of just having that base, I think, provides a lot of opportunities. I wish that there was a little bit and this is no, you know, no criticism whatsoever. I just wish there was a little bit more control. And, you know, you get an L one, you could open an affiliate. Yeah. Know, I mean, just a little bit like a next. Yeah. Something different, I think.

Fern:
No. And I think that that's not it. That's not an uncommon criticism. Like that's that's you're not at all the first person to say that. And I I mean if anybody who spent one second around Coach Glassman knows that he is a true blue libertarian, and I think for me I wouldn't even necessarily disagree with that criticism. Like, I I I I kind of agree with it. I think the problem becomes. Like the practical application of the next step, which is like, OK, if we are if we are gonna have like some sort of Q A on this whole thing, right. Who who's in and who's out? Because we have to go backwards. And my and my agent is there's a lot of people waving this. Q A flag that ain't making the cut, right. Listen. Right. Right. Doors because you are not good. So I think it's one of those weird things that it's kind of like the Crossfit, games in my mind where it's kind of like this necessary evil like a kind of has to exist in order for the proliferation of Crossfit, to make its way to different things. And I in in my mind and this is like a good Segway to the next piece, but like in my mind, the pros far outweigh the cons of it. And it's just one of those things that like that is what it is. But yeah, I don't even disagree with you. I just don't know what the answer is.

Fern:
In order to make that happen, like it would just might be. I don't know. I have no idea. But I think some of the things that Crossfit, is putting in place will allow the market to resolve that, which is getting the courses in line. So like the level one, level two, level three to level 4, which we discuss that with with Amy Hollingsworth and the previous podcast. But on that note, I kind of want to dive in here a little bit into and I'm looking at this timeline. I'm Mike so used. So to my correct me if I'm wrong, you've done the longest study on injury rates within Crossfit,, correct?

Yuri Feito:
Yes.

Fern:
OK. So the look, I've actually got to pull up your hands in the Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine. It's a four year analysis of the incidents of injuries amongst Crossfit, trained participants. And so I'm I'm I'm looking at this timeline and you're like really drove in 2012. And then basically the next year you start a four year study on injury rates,.

Yuri Feito:
Basically ya.

Fern:
OK. So I kind of want to dive into that. I want to dive too deep, but I kind of wanted to. How does that how do you start to put that together, like how do you come to the conclusion, I want to do a study and then what's the first step to start doing what ends up being a four year project?

Yuri Feito:
You know, I have no idea what I was doing at the time. I mean, I want to be candid and I want to be honest.

Yuri Feito:
I think that, you know, Mike G and I talked about a lot of things. You know, he was working on his project. You want to get. You wanted to get his thesis done. I had just started doing this whole thing again. I read the literature. I mean, I read whatever was available that had a Crossfit, attached to it. I read it and there was nothing. All I heard was as dangerous as dangerous is dangerous. And there was no evidence. There was no data hack, hack, study, hack. In 2013 was a first paper that came out and the strength and conditioning journal and had like 200 people.

Fern:
Yep.

Yuri Feito:
Or like a hundred and something, whatever. And then it was the first time where we actually looked at quantifiably were able to say this is dangerous disease and dangerous thing ended up being like a three point one in injuries per 1000 hours of farm from the injury rate standpoint. And that that you know, because of my background in public health and I had taken an epidemiology course and I kind of just dove into that literature a little bit. I was like, man, we could definitely do that. The easiest way to do something like that is to create a survey. I mean, we you could go and read it and read all the comments about our study and how it's a survey and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yuri Feito:
And I get it. I mean, we were forthcoming in that paper and say, look, that one of the major limitations of this is that it's a it's one, it's cross-sectional. So you kind of just only covers three thousand people of the millions of people who are currently participating. Right. And it's a survey. So we we're going backwards. Right. We ask you to remember what you've done over the last twelve months and and to tell me if you've been injured. So so we developed this survey and that was, you know, we started this doing this about 2013 and we kind of send it out. I have to give a big shout out to every single one of those people that were on my Facebook feed, my Twitter account and Instagram, because, man, I mean, I I enjoy the heck out of all of them, you know, because that's what I was. That's that's what I wanted to do. You know, we needed to get those people and we got thousands of responses every year. And the idea was to ask the questions that people wanted to know about, you know, how often have you done it? Have you been in or what kind of injuries have you sustained? So that was 13.

Yuri Feito:
And again, I had no idea what I was doing. In retrospect, very little because we didn't have anything to go by. So we did that. We knew that we couldn't include the game, so we couldn't include the the game season because, you know, the open, you're going to be doing five repetitive workouts over five weeks, more susceptible to being injured also. So. So. So really the only thing that we looked at was, OK, we need to know from last year to the end of the year. So we ended up collecting data through like I think at the time was like February 1, because after that the open started and all that stuff. So. So we knew we kind of have a timeline. That 13. We develop the survey as soon as we started my day. And I just went to work, man, and we just created this thing and we got it out there. And then 2014 happened, and that's when the whole Deavere Smith study came out. And all of.

Fern:
That was the champ study, right?

Yuri Feito:
No, the Champs study came out first. And that's kind of when he said that, you know, there were there was it was gonna be in there was injuries. Right. Roskam's injury.

Fern:
And then I house got the divorce. The divorce that we abhor.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So that came about with the temp's study came about we were in the middle of collecting data for that and we had a paper ready to go. But then the Smith paper came out and all that sort of came about and and that put me that put us, not just me, but put us an our while we were doing probably two years behind because I couldn't publish anything. That's a Crossfit,. You know,.

Fern:
Like nobody like nobody would let you because of that.

Yuri Feito:
No, I wouldn't.

Fern:
Really.

Yuri Feito:
I would. I would. I submitted we submitted probably four or five manuscripts from that data. And every time that it had Crossfit, on it, we would get best rejections.

Fern:
Did did anybody give you any justification as to why?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, they didn't want to be involved with Crossfit,. OK. It doesn't make any sense to me, but it's. Well, it was. What was the result of, you know, when when cross to start asking questions and, you know, sue the NCAA and the Jassi and R and all that sort of thing, people freaked out. Right. So all the other kind of like got it backed off and said if had Crossfit,. If he has if he has anything to do with Crossfit, would want to touch it.

Fern:
Well I feel like the simple solution is is don't project publish fraudulent data.

Yuri Feito:
You know Man. I mean I I always I always you know I I actually I just I had a conversation with with Greg Glassman and a couple of guys from HQ did the other day, you know,.

Fern:
Like were you at the most recent DDC?

Yuri Feito:
I was. OK, cool.

Fern:
So. And was was Nather to? Jenkins?

Yuri Feito:
He was.

Fern:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. OK, so Amy told me she talked about. That's right. She told me. She talked to both of you guys.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. So Stowe's which was really cool was the first time being there and. It was really cool experience and and kind of what sort of the thought process and that's of thing that was really neat. But you know, we always talk about that science, you know, and to put the the emphasis is always being on that science and fraudulent data. Stuff like that. But, you know, in my opinion and I guess I'm just biased because I'm on that, um, that side of the coin. Right. But let's talk about the good science. Yeah. You know, because there's all people doing good science. You know, Nate Jenkins is doing good science, Mike. He's done some really good work. Keto Heinrich and Kansas State is doing some really good work. Sampedro Zillo up in Illinois is doing some really good work. You know, it's a lot of people that are doing their Crossfit, in Kansas. Kansas is doing really good work. There's a lot of people who are doing a lot of really good science.

Fern:
Yeah,.

Yuri Feito:
That may or may not benefit the community as a whole, but still is good science in the community. So let's spend our time doing God versus continue to talk about.

Fern:
Yeah,.

Yuri Feito:
Same fraudulent data. Oh, the crappy data comes about.

Fern:
Well, I think I could be wrong, but I think that kind of talking about that that whole NACA thing is going to die down because of some of the Rawya come down. I think. I think he you know, I think he was just a dog with a bone. And it was one of the things that Mike and I get it. And and I don't think anybody could blame him for that. But I think now that there's been some serious rulings there with NACA, a little bit of hot water. But I think now the focus is hopefully is going to shift to some of that stuff. And I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about your study and spoiler alert. It's found that Crossfit, is not dangerous. Contrary to popular Internet beliefs, which we all know, being in the affiliate, you know, it's like I don't have to conduct the study. I mean, that's that is science. So like, if you're going to probably something you need to have that. Otherwise it's just anecdotal. My anecdotal science is that having owned an affiliate for 10 years, it's not dangerous. I have a limited number of injuries within my affiliate. People do get injured and that like. That is across the board, regardless of what you're doing. I mean, I played I played Division 1 basketball. People get injured all the time, like 50 percent of the team is probly going to sustain an injury in a given season individual like something whether it's a sprained or some like that. So I think some of that conversation just lacks context, which is like they're going to get injured. I'm like, listen, we're training. Like that is part of training. So I think that's important. But I want to let you kind of talk about your study and then kind of with some of the stuff that you found and kind of what came about from that. Yeah. I mean, I thought your thunder.

Yuri Feito:
Absolutely. No. In my family, you're you're you're right on. I think, you know, ultimately, you know, it's sitting on the couch is the most dangerous sport that you can play. Right. So whether whether you to me as a as a, you know, promoter of physical activity, exercise, you know, again, from from a public health standpoint, to me, I don't care what you call it. You know, Colla Crossfit, colors about a college spinning color, whatever you want, whatever brand you want attached to it, that's fine. For the most part, you know, and we're talking about this. So, you know, Crossfit, has seemed to sort of overtaken all of those other programs that have been in the market for a long time. You know, the fitness industry is now has a plethora of programming and other programs that have been prior to Crossfit, that will come after Crossfit,. And, you know, the numbers show the difference between. Right. So to me, as as the physical activity promoter and as an exercise promoter. And what I want is people to be active. I don't care what you call it, but you're absolutely right. People are gonna get hurt if you're doing something, you're going gonna get injured. You're going to get hurt. The idea is to minimize those injuries. And one of the things that, in my opinion, the affiliates do a really, really good is that, you know, you are working out with someone who is watching you, you know, and the level of experience matters, of course. But at least you have somebody there.

Fern:
Yeah. And that's and that level experience is. The that that exists regardless of what training modality you're doing, right,.

Yuri Feito:
Exactly, exactly, so you know, and you know and think about how many people are out there on the roads running on their own and they have absolutely no idea what they're doing. I mean, there's nobody watching their form. There's nobody watching, you know, how they're running. So if there's any kind of muscular imbalances, they're going to get injured. And there's no one taking.

Fern:
The studies are like 80 percent of runners get injured in a given 12 month period.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, absolutely. And if you look at the injury rates, right. If you look at how many people are actually getting injured per per hour of work, I think you're looking at somewhere around 30 people get injured in, you know, per 1000 hours of participation. And don't come in those numbers. But that kind of sort of they're sort of there, which means that if that's true. And again, I know we're using these numbers relatively lightly. And the Hack's study and every other study that's come out that's reported injury rates for for Crossfit, training. We're talking about three, two point nine, three injuries per 1000. So that's the incidence rate. Right. So we talk about how many people are getting injured. That that's 10 times more running injuries compared to Crossfit, related injuries. And you don't see CNN doing a special on running and how dangerous it is. So, again, we know you have died.

Fern:
And on that note So this is where people's kind of eyes can kind of glaze roll back in them in the back of their head. And it's it's not because it's not interesting. It's because for most of us, myself included, it's kind of starts to go overhead. What is the difference? Can you kind of talk about the difference between injury rate and prevalence rate with regard to injuries?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. So when we talk about prevalence and we don't need to get into the math. But when you talk about prevalence, you really just looking at how many people of this group. Right. How many people this group actually get injured. So let's say that you have a group of 50 people and 10 people reports report an injury. Right. Or let's say twenty five. Make the kind of make it easy. So 50 people. Twenty five report some level of injury. That means that the prevalence rate of that, it's 50 percent. That's the people who've reported an injury in this sample. An injury rate gives you a time. Got it. So an injury rate you think of. You know, one of the things we talk about, it's a power is it has a time component. Right. So the same thing with injury rate. You have to have a time component associated it. So an injury rate is three injuries per 1000 hours of participation. So if you have people who have 50 percent prevalence, that's the number of total injuries reported in this in the sample. But they could have been injured, you know, within a year or in their entire life participate.

Fern:
So I so like to put it in context. Let's use basketball, because that was my background. If you were to survey and get an a prevalence rate on basketball players and injury, it probably be north of ninety five to one hundred percent.

Yuri Feito:
Sure. Right. And incidence. Right. So incidence or prevalence, depending on kind of what the question, I think what's important here is what is the question being asked? That's going to provide the measurement. If you just so well, 50 percent well, 50 percent of what what was asked was it in the last year? In the last three months? Is it overall, you know, when do you report an injury? So so how the question is posed. It's going to be important. And then obviously that's going to dictate what it is that you're recording where there is prevalence. And while you're always going to see is. Prevalence 30 percent every time you see a percent. You want to be suspect, right? Because that means basically you're just asking a broad question. He's asking people how how often do you get injured? How many people get injured? That really doesn't get the comparison of, you know, how many people how many injuries do you experience during this? That's when you really need to get to the incidents rate number. And that incident rate always gives you that that that time component in this case, because the numbers are so small. Usually every thousand hours. Which means that. That's the comparison, right? So if you if you get injured and you work out three days a week and I work out seven days a week, multiple sessions a week, we're going to have a different chance of getting injured. Right. Because I'm more expose young. You are. So that's when we have to bring it out. So. So if I say, oh, I get injured and you say, oh, I got injured, too. Or maybe you said you didn't. That still gives us 50 percent, right? If it's just you and I. But the reality is that I worked out 10 times more than you might have over that week period or that month or whatever. So that's why we have to bring it down to that injury rate component of the hours. So if we assume one of the assumptions that we made in that paper is that everybody in general work out in one hour time periods.

Fern:
Right.

Yuri Feito:
I mean, you know, some people work.

Fern:
In Crossfit,. Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
Right. So, you know, in general, we're not talking about we're not talking about elite level athletes. Some of those guys we work out, you know, three, four hours. But in general, most people don't have.

Fern:
The standard crossfit in an affiliate for the ninety nine point ninety nine percent of us is 60 minutes.

Yuri Feito:
Sixty minutes. Right. And, you know, you you could be doing different things, but you're still expose those. Well, we assumed the the the the 1 hour time period. So then we could look at, you know. So in that regard, some of our studies, the one study that we looked at, we we're looking at a high and a low range. And the idea for that is to really look at what people are doing. You know, most of the studies out there look at how many days do you work out? Well. I could work out one day a week and have four sessions. Got it right. Four different workouts. Yay! I don't have anything to do. I came in the morning, I came in the afternoon. I came in later. And then I worked out at nighttime. Those are four times for which I could be exposed to an injury that's different than if I just workout once a day. So one of the things that we ended up doing, because at the time we kind of again, that HACS study had looked at some of that stuff and we wanted to do something different is we looked at injuries based on participation. How many sessions do you engage in? Not days a week, but how many workout sessions do you engage a day? Sorry. So whether it's three days, three sessions, three. And so the way that if you look at some of those tables in the actual manuscript, you have like less than three sessions, three to five sessions and more than five sessions where there is a week or day. I think it's that we set it up as a week to really look at, you know, the exposure of the session, not just a day knowing that there was going to be people who would do multiple sessions a day.

Yuri Feito:
So so we kind of have this range in this range. Well, we assume we made the assumption here and again, another assumption, limitation of the study. But, you know, we have to make some of these assumptions in order to kind of get to something that, again, we do not have a lot. So we kind of have to go with made some general assumptions. So we ended up saying, OK, in order to have a denominator, in order to have a number that we could divide by, we assume the worst case scenario is that everybody works out every single day.

Fern:
OK.

Yuri Feito:
So 52 weeks out of the year, 365 days, if you work out every single day, you never take a day off. We wanted to know what that injury rate would be. And then we said, OK, well, let's just say that somebody takes two weeks off. And again, we make some assumptions here to kind of just get some numbers. Right. So so we we compare the high and the low based on 52 weeks of participation and only 50, 50 weeks of participation. The assumption was if if our numbers are really, really high for those people who exercise every single day, then, you know, we have a number, a max number. And if it wasn't, you know, the people who you know, the 50 range or whatever, then we could always say, well, you know, that may very well be more injuries if you exercise, if you've worked out longer, more. So that's kind of the rationale for that study. We've been criticized because, you know, again, we made those assumptions.

Fern:
But what is the alternative? And that's. I like it, like you said, you kind of have to like there's there's. I'm not aware of any way to do an absolute controlled study with us. Where like I keep you inside of a box and we train like in a lab and you never leave there and you never know. So I think. But I'm glad you brought up the limitations of study, because one of the questions that I had for you. I don't find those to be unreasonable as long as you. I think where people get a little bent out of shape is where, you know, you kind of read the abstract or the conclusion of the study and then you dig into the numbers and you're like, those two don't match like what you got included here, like. And I'm not saying you did that, but that's where people get a little. Yeah. Can get a little a little grumpy. But the I mean, looks like what you found. I mean it's like the injury rates here are relatively low. And again, like I think context matters here. It's like when we're talking about training, like it's it's only relatively low. It's really low like three, you know, like three in a thousand hours. I mean, if you were to take that over, that's a thousand hours. We can just call that three years, essentially, like if you trained every single day, like there's gonna be three injuries there. So if you bump that out to like a normal person, you really drains three. We'll call it five times a heavy week for most people. Now we're talking about well over five years. Right. You know, and for you to sustain it, you know, three injuries in five years. Well, I mean, that could be high. Could be low. But my other question for you is like, where did you guys have any sort of definition or what were the parameters for injury?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, if you can can remember Barbato, but there is a definition in there. And the definition was, you know, because we wanted to not include, you know, if you you know, you know how this in the gym, right? People you get a rib blister or you kind of tweak a ball, you kind of tweak a muscle, you kind of do something kind of like with your solve. And that leaves a mark. So there's there's there's really no concise definition of what your injury is in the literature. Right. So in 2015, I think it was like early 15 or late 14 somewhere on there. Giordano and Weisenthal had a really good paper looking at injuries as well. And they made this definition of any injury that caused you to stop exercise and any injury that actually caused you to stop Crossfitting or any injury that caused you to go see a medical professional and stopped you from exercising. Okay. So so that was kind of our base of what we were looking at because we didn't want to include, you know, a blister or, you know, whatever else that could happen. Yeah. And of course, that is sort of like day to day, if you know, you know, because that stuff happens and people don't want to pay attention to it. They just kind of move along and and move on. And that's really nothing else comes out of it.

Fern:
Yeah. Or it's like, you know, a strained calf muscle because you were doing like high volume double unders and is like, is that Crossfit, is dangerous or is that just kind of something that happens if we're jumping a lot? You know, regardless of sport, you know? So, yeah, I think that stuff gets overlooked and like people get hurt. And I'm like, well, what's the degree of the injury like? And is that unreasonable based on volume of training, you know, like. And then this is I mean, you guys took this into account, but like, you know, somebody was training age of 0 again to start doing training. You know, like there was a problem in most centers, like more susceptible to injury because they have no training background. You know, they have probably horrible kinesthetic awareness, like don't know where their body is in space or how to manage an external object like all of these things. So like all this, they all of those things matter.

Fern:
And it's like any upso and anybody who spent any amount of time on the floor like coaching knows this or like, listen up, this is I need to manage this because the person is just kind of a hot mess. And the other rate of the the opportunity for the image for them to injure themselves is is pretty high if I don't intervene here.

Yuri Feito:
Right. And you hit it, right. I mean, based on our data, you literally I don't know. I don't know if you've read this study before or not, but based on the data, that's exactly what we found. The people who, you know, worked out less than three sessions a week on a regular basis, regardless of age, we're more likely to get injured than your typical three to five sessions a week. And again, you know, the typical peak of the typical individual is going to do three or five days a week. You know, we call it three to five sessions, but that's what we measure. And then those who were more than five sessions regardless, again, of age and you know, whether or male-female, those people got injured less. So the more experienced, the more exposure, the less likely you are to be injured. And it makes total.

Fern:
I mean, it makes you makes all the. Like if you're reading it, you're like, well, if there are more exposed, they should have more injury or like none or no. That's not how this works. Like, right. The more exposed like the better adaptation I have, like the better movement patterns. I'm going to have all of these things. And again, this goes back to just like. Practical knowledge of training as an athlete myself and as a coach and as a coach. I know that like the ones I'm worried about are the people that never train, like they're the ones who pull a hamstring. Just touching their toes, right. You know. All right. So, yeah, that stuff. I mean, it happens. Right. And it's one of those things where it just is what it is like. You you really have to kind of like put kid gloves on sometimes and say, listen, and I'll be on like I tell people all the time when they come in, if they come in. And there have largely been sedentary. I will tell them straight up. I will say, listen, you are very likely to get a pulled muscle, a strain of some sort. Because you do nothing. So going from nothing to doing anything. The the the prevalent or the opportunity for you to injure yourself in some. And it's very likely gonna be minor is pretty high. Hmm. Like, you know how to use your muscles. Like you have no motor patterns that would resemble anything that looks safe, you know, any of that stuff. So I tell them, like, we're gonna we're gonna do everything we can to mitigate that. But don't be shocked if, like, you feel a little tight in your back or your hamstring or your shoulder, start to get a little bit sore. It's because you are not using your body. So don't be shocked.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. And that is really constitute an injury, right? I mean, if if you're if.

Fern:
Exactly.

Yuri Feito:
Way That. I see that, you know, if I could. I mean I. I was. I've been out for almost 18 months because I had an injury playing soccer. So. So it's a you know, if if I have an injury into your example, you know, you kind of tweak your calf, but you can still come to the gym and do something else. Or whether it's Crossfit, or something else. And you go to wherever else you want to go. That to me, that doesn't constitute an injury because it doesn't stop you from doing the activity that you really want to do. Now, if you're laid out and you can't move because you pull your back or whatever. That's a different story.

Fern:
Yeah,.

Yuri Feito:
But you know, I think I think some. And again, and to your point, you know, unaware, untrained. Yeah. You're going gonna be more likely to feel things that you've never felt before because you're moving. Right. But I don't know that that constitutes this sort of blanket statement of, you know, it's dangerous. Yeah.

Fern:
I mean, I mean, if we were to just to just, you know, forget science and just kind of like pick our heads up out of the the the numbers and stuff and just kind of look around. If Crossfit, was dangerous, affiliate's wouldn't be open. Right. If if 50 percent of the people that came into my facility were getting injured, like, let's just all agree, that's bad for business. Something wrong is going on in there. Right. Right. Just like that with what's actually happening versus what's being reported and summonses, I'm like that's just impossible like that. Right? That's incredibly high. Like, what do you like? Or people working with their eyes closed. Like, what's going on?

Yuri Feito:
Right. There's actually there's just a study that just published either today or yesterday. And, you know, the hypotheses from the get go they state the hypothesis is that Crossfit, is more dangerous than resistance training. I'm like, well, first of all, you coming in with a biased opinion, walking in because your hypothesis is that it's more dangerous. And I can't remember exact I haven't read the entire thing. But, you know, you can't just make a blanket statement based on what your bias might be. You've got to look at the data. And you have to understand where the data comes from, what those numbers are. And again, prevalence doesn't give you that answer or you can say 50 percent, 30 percent. I don't care. That doesn't mean anything to me. You've got to be able to give this in a comparison metric with everyone in the same role.

Fern:
And then so what is resistent like? How is that defined or characterize resistance training?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. So and that particular study and I'm to have a read the whole thing, but I believe they were doing a weight lifting, just regular traditional resistance training.

Fern:
Ok. So then I always have a question. I'm like, is Crossfit, not resistance training?

Yuri Feito:
I mean, again, that's you know, it's you can you can choose and you could pick and choose the battle or terminology you want, you know? And again, if if. If the hypothesis is already bias and again, I haven't looked at the study, but it seems to me that from the get go you're coming into to a study thinking that that's, you know, make the hypothesis that there is no difference.

Fern:
Yeah, well, the other the other thing that I think that conversation lacks is we talk about this in the technique lecture at the level one course, which is, you know, there's there's kind of three metrics by which I would evaluate any program regardless of what it is. So it's safety, efficacy and efficiency. And I think the efficiency and efficacy gets left out at the expense of safety. And the argument we present is anything that's 100 percent safe is likely 100 percent ineffective. OK. You're never getting injured. We're probably not doing anything that would even remotely resembles some sort of stimulus that would would result in an adaptation to. OK, well, so then, OK, it's 1 percent safe, but it's like getting me anywhere,.

Yuri Feito:
Right.

Fern:
You know? So I think people leave that out. It's just like, OK, if we're if we're getting massive results on this program and it even if it did, which it doesn't. And it did have a little bit higher injury rate. And like it's kind of worth it for for people to, like, get fitter, you know, that argument. But that even though that's not the case, that would be justifiable at that point.

Yuri Feito:
Right. I mean, I think, again, you know, the most dangerous sports is it's, you know, sedentary behavior. Right. On the couch, sitting on a couch is the most dangerous thing you could do for it for your health. So I think ultimately, you know, you take a chance and you go out and do something. And, you know, when you compare the outcome measures, when you compare what you're gaining for the chance. And again, I'm not justifying getting injured because. Absolutely not. It's about progressive government.

Fern:
You don't want to do that.

Yuri Feito:
Right. It's Progressive. It's progressive overload, individualized programming. You know, in some shape or form, you know, scaling to your athlete, whatever that may be. You know, you've got to be able to have that stimulus. Otherwise you kind of spinning your wheels and people are not going to you know, they. I will stick around for that. You know, Xenaphon, they don't. I could see how, you know, people want results. Yeah. People want to be able to say, you know what, I'm spending $200 a month, but it's worth it. Yeah. Or whatever it is. You know, me and and of course, the that grants different discussion altogether is, you know, access. Right. How many people have access to this type of work? And we could talk about economics and all that sort of thing. But. Ultimately, you know, again, you don't have to go to an affiliate to do it.

Fern:
You could do it at home.

Yuri Feito:
The original model, was that right?

Fern:
So it's still free on Crossfit, dot com.

Yuri Feito:
Right. Exactly. So I think there's definitely there's definitely a lot there. And, you know, we're trying to move into that direction from a standpoint of, you know, access and sort of trying to, you know, because we do know that people who don't have that access in some way and marginalized populations or underrepresented populations. And that's where things are more likely to have diabetes and heart disease.

Fern:
And be sedentary and not do anything.

Yuri Feito:
Exactly.

Fern:
So even Crossfit, is providing some not Crossfit, Crossfit,. I mean, obviously, what they have on there is free. So that is, you know, like one excuse.. one excuse right there. You know, you have to have access to equipment. But, you know, there are other programs out there that are really low barrier with with regard to finances that work around all of that. You know, like we had Hoolihan and Morand on and they have street parking. I mean, 17000 clients. And that's a very low barrier, you know, entry point into that where they're going to work around all of those things.

Fern:
Yeah, I think that I think that's starting to seep its way through. And the excuse of like a membership is expensive, is starting to go away because there are other options that are very financially viable for people.

Fern:
So was there anything in there that you found when you guys did the study that was surprising to you? Like either good or bad?

Yuri Feito:
I thought the surprising piece to meet was primarily in that particular study use. I didn't expect the numbers in regards to those, you know, less than three sessions to be as high as as you know. I didn't expect. So if you look at the numbers, there's this sort of those response, if you will, curve that you could see almost every single each group, regardless of the number of sessions that you see, you see the people that are less than three days per week or three sessions per week compared to the three to five, more than five. Like regardless of what you were looking up, males, females, you know, age groups or whatever, the relationship was all the same. That's fascinating to me. It was fascinating to me. It's either it was fascinating that the numbers came out that way and we actually were running it where we're actually finishing a second part two for that particular study. And we were really looking at the people who compete. So competitors.

Fern:
Right.

Yuri Feito:
So the idea of, you know what, if you compete, you're more likely to be injured. Unless we absolutely looking at the data completely wrong in both studies, the numbers almost look identical, which is fascinating. So the people who are competing at the end, we really just look at Crossfit, not sanctioned events. So open regionals, because the data is old enough for the regionals and then the open. Obviously, the numbers dwindle right from from the open to the game.

Fern:
Yeah. Are you guys gonna be able to capture Sanctionable now that those are.

Yuri Feito:
No

Fern:
Just to do that, there's a shot.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. So we got we got that until 2017 and God knows about the changes. We can't really compare. Right. So you would have to do it again.

Fern:
Yeah.

Yuri Feito:
Which which definitely will do it in the future. But the idea is to really look at a competitor. So the people who actually compete, how likely are they to get injured? And one of the questions in there we all also asked and I can't give you the answer that I can give you. Yeah. You know,.

Fern:
The goods.

Yuri Feito:
The good stuff. Right. But we did ask one of the questions that we did ask is, you know, we asked about affiliate training. Were they training on an affiliate or not?

Yuri Feito:
And those are going to be some interesting.

Fern:
I'd be super tinterested in those signing up.

Yuri Feito:
I've got to give you a teaser. I got to give it back right now.

Fern:
This is like this is like a season teaser. That's interesting. So be you. So essentially, what it sounds like you found was like there was almost like not a hard line, but there is a distinct version of line in the sand for people who are either less or more than three days of training a week.

Yuri Feito:
Yes, that's right. Yeah. The the number the magic number is three. If you really want to avoid any kind of injury, if you really want to end and potentially gain benefits, right, you've got to let.

Fern:
The that's the other place I was going to go at. This is like I told people that the minimum effective doses, three like I mean, like like you're not going to see really a ton if you're coming less than three times a week.

Yuri Feito:
Right. Well, and now you can say that you're more susceptible to injury, too.

Fern:
I'm gonna use that. Going in sales pitch. Yeah, it's I mean, it's in and it's pretty there.

Yuri Feito:
You know, it's one of the things I actually think if you go to. I think. I think Nathan actually posted this on Instagram. He's much more active on instagram.

Fern:
He send it to me every day, but I haven't had a chance to like dive into it. But he did send it to me actually yesterday.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, because we were we actually met. You actually came to Kennesaw months ago. And we were we were doing some stuff and we ended up doing this graphic of what this injury rates looked at. You could see the image. And he actually posted on Instagram and you could see those numbers, man, just kind of just this dose response of three is way up here and then five is way down here. You see that relationship throughout. That was fascinating to me. I didn't expect that to be so clear. Yeah, I was hoping that was the case, but expect it to be so clear throughout.

Fern:
I mean, it makes sense if you think about it just from thirty thousand. Somebody who's trading that frequently probably has a lot of other lifestyle factors that come into play there. We're probably doing maintenance on our body. The nutrition pro is in check. They probably look at their track, their sleep and their nutrition, all that stuff. So. But it's it's kind of counterintuitive going back to just exposure. You would think the more exposure that you would have a higher incidence of injury. But it's very interesting that that's not the case.

Fern:
Even though I already know that because I live in an affiliate, basically,.

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, but the Converses, what you mentioned originally, right wing and the converse of that is those people who are doing five, six, seven, eight workouts a week or whatever it is, they're much more aware of their bodies. Not only that, they're much more aware about what they're able to do. Right.

Fern:
That's a good point.

Yuri Feito:
And their abilities in what they're able to do. Right. If and if you have somebody who like, for example, what we talked about my first time right there, Randy. There's no way that I should have ever done seventy five pounds to start with. Right.

Fern:
You wouldn't know that,.

Yuri Feito:
But I wouldn't know that. Right. So if I don't come on a regular basis in this, you know, we'll call this three days a week and you really learn the movement patterns and you really learn what's it about? And this and that and the other. You're going to carry on this sort of, you know, athletic mentality that you could walk into a soccer field myself, my kids, myself. You know, a perfect example. And I could play ball. I can play for forty five minutes. I'm going to hate it the next day. I could very well likely get injured. You know, just like yourself, you could probably go into a ballpark and play ball for an hour. But if you haven't done it in so long, you're gonna be.

Fern:
I did it back in 2009 and I was playing and like pulled a calf. Like,.

Yuri Feito:
Right away.

Yuri Feito:
What? Right away? Even though I had been training regularly, it's just it's a different. Right. Like it's different. Stop. Start. That's, you know, the the mechanics there are different there's some different there's there's outside variables of kind of unknown zone. It seems like all that stuff but. Yeah. That's super, super interesting. So. So when do you guys anticipate that study kind of being published?

Yuri Feito:
So I'm I'm I'm pushing hard to get it out before the end year. I've gotten rid of that that are kind of looking at that stuff. I've got to finalize some numbers. That's kind of like my to do list for this week.

Fern:
Got it.

Yuri Feito:
And I'm hoping to get it on the, you know, the end of the year. And we're hoping to make a big splash with it because, you know, I think I think it's gonna be cool. It's going to be interesting that we're able to capture that. Those two aren't those two questions, that competitor piece. Yeah, well, affilate.

Fern:
That's awesome. Obviously, you know, when that company that hits the hits the street, you know, send it because we'll push it out and be happy to share that because, you know, I'm obviously interested in what's. What's up next for you? Like, what do you got any it would anything cool? Coming up as far as like this whole this whole journey?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah. And I mean, I think it's it's it's really interesting. I'm working with, um, we're working with a lot of people right now where, you know, we're trying to dive into this psychological peace movement the same way that Mike G kind of just turned me into this whole thing. I had a student who was doing a double major in an exercise, science and psychology. And and she kind of start asking questions and this and that on the other. And we kind of dove into this whole thing head first. And she was awesome. She's currently doing a PHD in neuroscience. Way smarter than I am.

Fern:
Ten times smarter than me.

Yuri Feito:
And she's amazing, right. And she kind of just dug me into this whole thing of, you know, personality traits and looking at why Crossfitters are who they are and why they're there. Do the right guesstimating. It is fascinating. You got to read some of that work. And it's and it's it's really interesting how, you know, most people most not all, but most are type-A personalities driven, you know, goal oriented, competitive nature. And and it's interesting. It's fascinating how how that works out. And, you know, but there are also other motivational factors. Right. And. The older you get that motivation changes. It's just like everything else.

Fern:
Yeah. I mean, I could just speak for myself that that's the case. Yeah, absolutely right. I'm I'm I'm an old I'm. I'm just turned thirty nine. But like my training, my approach to training has changed dramatically.

Yuri Feito:
Right. Absolutely. And it's fascinating to be able to see that and document that in the literature and be able to redo and really dig in. And I wish in some levels, you know, we will be able to push some of this stuff to affiliate owners because that behavior piece, that's what gets people to to really understand those those people. That's why. What's why you. You don't know why people are not coming in. Why are they not showing up? Do you still have a membership? But they're not coming. Well, why? What are the motivational factors that are bringing these people in? And I think what's even more important that we haven't been able to study yet, but I I have a pseudo design that I want to do is why people don't come back. Why people stop.

Fern:
I mean, I have my own theory on that.

Yuri Feito:
Absolutely.

Fern:
But it's very it's very general in nature. But it's it's. But yeah, I have my own thoughts on it as well.

Yuri Feito:
But if we if we study motivational factors the same way that we study motivational factors of the people that stay. You know what would be different?

Yuri Feito:
Yeah, I would love to. Sighs Is it the exercises of the community?

Fern:
I don't think it's the action. That's my. I don't think it's the exercise. That's. I actually think exercise a zero to do with it,.

Yuri Feito:
I'm sure. I mean, I don't disagree with you. I don't disagree at all. But but we don't know. You know, we have good. Yeah. We've never been able to answer that question. And it'll be fascinating to be able to reach out. And, you know, any athlete out there that has and it's willing to you know as well as yourself, do it. They'll be willing to help with this particular project. I think we'll be fascinated because really it's just a matter of contacting those people and say, hey, here's a question, here's a questionnaire. I don't know, ten fifteen questions, whatever it is. And just finding out what motivated you away from Crossfit,, not what motivates you to do Crossfit,, but what motivates you away from.

Fern:
Well, I'm happy to participate in any of the affiliates that we work with are more than happy. And we will just bribe them and say that we'll stop producing podcasts if they do.

Yuri Feito:
I can't do that. I can't do that. Well, I can though. You can't. I can't. I'm not good as I don't have time to do the study.

Fern:
So we'll just we will not produce podcasts. So everybody brings a service back and they go, well, man, listen, this has been awesome. So we're definitely gonna have you back on. I'd love to have you so proudly try to schedule something like a beginning of next year, which is literally a couple of weeks away. Like once that study hits the street and I love to have you back on to discuss that because that, you know, I think the stuff that you've already. I think that's the study that you did like it. I'm super pumped that it's out there because it's out there and it's on the street. And we can point to. But I don't think anybody that's in the trenches, it's I don't think it's anything that we didn't already know.

Yuri Feito:
Right, right, right. Right. And, you know, it's funny. You know, it was it was a DDC last weekend. And, you know, one of the conversations I had, I was like, well, you know, we'll have you come in and, you know, maybe maybe at some point, you know, potentially present or whatever. And I think in my head, I'm like. I don't know what I mean, I could present the data, but this would be a fascinating group to present to because what I'm presenting to them, I don't have to convince them.

Fern:
Well, that's what Nate said when he talked at the summit. He was like, man, he was like, this is awesome, you know? Yeah, but everybody's, like, agrees with me. But but it's but it's still cool because we appreciate it, because we understand that academics in the space is not the norm. We're just like, man. We're just so pumped that people are actually that they're not just anti Crossfit, just because for whatever reason, we don't even know. You just decided you didn't like it and that's it. So I know I mean, if you get that opportunity, I think you should take it. Like, I would love to sit in on it. I'll I'll send in a request to show up to that.

Yuri Feito:
So, yeah, I mean, I think I'll be fascinated again. You know, there's there's a lot of other much more smart people than I am. And I go there I mean I was there this weekend and I was like, wow, how did you even come up with all of that? And it was fascinating. But again, you know, the opportunity to be able to contribute and, you know. My question started off Ophelia. You know what I mean, like you guys are the you guys are the. Excuse me. You guys are the tensions. And you guys are the ones that and you guys have questions that I probably don't have any thought about because, you know, I'm just not there every day. You know, I want to. This is why I try to I try to go in and try not to talk to anybody when I go work out, because I don't have any question or anything that you'd suggest. I'm probably going to start thinking about it. And there's gonna be something in the back of my mind that I go all alone. It started this way. Maybe we could do that study. So it's it's extremely dangerous. Yeah. Conversations at a yard of OCS. And I've been in jail for about 18 months now.

Yuri Feito:
But nonetheless, it's interesting that, you know, you you sort of think about that space and, you know, you guys in the trenches are are sort of, you know, driving this whole thing.

Yuri Feito:
So, you know, any questions that you guys, whether it's you or any of the other coaches or anybody else listening that, you know, that we come up with and collaborate on, and I'm open to that. I think ultimately, you know, there's we we've published a couple articles that are sort of reviews of the literature and you're talking about one hundred and thirty one hundred and forty fifty or a hundred fifty articles portal related to Crossfit, training. That's nothing. You search PubMed, you know, Google scholars and you put like V02 Max or Lactaid, you're talking about thousands.

Fern:
Yeah, I've had to sift through some of that stuff because mean I'm doing my masters right now, but it's like it's just so much stuff. It's. Yeah. I think 400 400 publications a day like hit like hit the journals like it's something just noxious. It's just it's too much for any any one person to try to keep up with. But on that note, we're happy to help in any way, brother.

Fern:
And I mean that sincerely, if there's something that you guys want us to kind of push out like and we can start, you know, help and like maybe crowdsource some of those questions to potentially use them, like just let us know. And we would love to participate. So awesome.

Fern:
That's great. Thank you, Will. But we'll definitely have you back on. We've been at this for almost like an hour and a half. I think so far. But I know you're busy yourself to do. Thank you so much for your time. Do it. Anything else? Is there any kind of like social media or website or anything you want to point people to?

Yuri Feito:
I'm on Twitter. I usually do. Twitter is just kind of easier for me to manage. Dr. Feydeau, that's FBI T-O. But you have to reach out there, you know, and or email me, whatever. I'm happy to talk this stuff with anybody and, you know, send ideas and really anybody who's willing to collaborate. I'm in. I think that's important. I think you guys are doing a great job as affiliates and coaches, you know, kind of just sending the message and encouraging people to be active.

Yuri Feito:
And we and the scientific community, I appreciate it, because you guys kind of bring a lot of that. You know, I've never I've never studied a group of people that are more willing to come into a lab and just allow us to do whatever. It's fascinating.

Yuri Feito:
You laugh, but it's really possible.

Fern:
That I don't. But that's a psychological study on its own, just like people are just like whatever you can poke me broad me like I'll do thrusters for an hour. Who cares?

Yuri Feito:
I mean, it's fascinating. I mean, we have students who are doing like regular projects with non Crossfitters and they struggle to get people in the lab. And as soon as I have a Crossfit, study out there and I put it on social media, my inbox just like floods. I was like, oh, my God, I don't have time. So it's fascinating. So, you know, continue to do that. That's awesome. That helps everybody. And ultimately just helps the community. So, yeah. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. And anytime that I can, you know, whatever questions, anything like that, I know that I'm I'm just one of the few and I'm happy to contribute.

Fern:
Awesome. If you guys have any questions for Urey about any of this stuff, obviously you just drop it in the DSM. We'll pass it along and yeah, we'll get this next one on the books. And what we might do here is we might we could do is we could potentially do kind of a part Q&A or maybe we get some Q&A prior to and we can kind of talk about the study and then maybe do some Q&A from the audience, which I think would be cool. So yeah, they'll be really cool. Awesome. Thanks for your time.

Thanks take care.

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