93. Rep Shavers

93. Rep Shavers

In this episode, all of your hosts discuss a topic that faces every athlete more than once in the Affiliate, people who shave reps or more than likely you yourself have done it more than once. It’s a very controversial and likely a touchy subject for most. They drive into how they dealt with athletes who have done it and repeatedly, also looked into the flip side of let just be honest they just lost count and other situations whereby the athletes internal scaled because they’d bite off more than they can chew. 

A big note to remember with an issue like this is if someone is cheating to get their name on the top of the leaderboard and they know it. Then they probably have a lot more going on then you realise. Along with os how it can spread like cancer throughout your community, its important if it does become an issue to be the leader and handle the situation.  

Timestamp:

(2:30) How Todd has dealt with it
(7:10) Ferns opinion
(11:24) What should members be doing when they know someone is shaving reps?  
(14:17) What a coach can do
(22:06) When do you as a box owner intervene
(31:19) Vern (Fern’s) Storytime 

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Ackerman:
Welcome back to Best Hour of Their Day, we have our most controversial topic ever to the point that we were already fighting before we hit the record.

Fern:
But before we start, I do want to say that this show is sponsored by nobody. So if you want to sponsor this show, we’re happy to take that sponsorship.

Ackerman:
Funny you say that because last week we kind of in jest put out there that the three of us will show up at your box for ten thousand dollars. You know, all expenses paid and one check gets us there. And we didn’t have people reach out to us where we’re talking to them. So I say that offer still stands. But like Fern said, you do want to sponsor the podcast, get in front of dozens of people every week. You could certainly do that. So if you’re tuning in, you’ve probably seen the topic already. But we’re going to dive into the misconstrued, I think the complexity of people that shave reps, people that cheat at Crossfit, affiliates time. Kick it off for us.

Todd:
I think it’s interesting. It’s an interesting topic in general. I think it kind of relates back to the discussion we had a couple of weeks ago around how important our rx is, because a lot of that has to do with and my opinion has to do with what you value and emphasize that your gym scores are the most important things. Then you’re gonna potentially find people that are willing to, you know, cheat to win, evidently, because they’re so caught up in what the score is if you devalue the leaderboard to some degree. I think you end up having a little bit less of an issue with that within your gym. And that’s what we’ve seen. It’s happened in our gym, but it doesn’t happen very often. And it’s it’s been with younger kids, you know, in their early twenties or late teens that are a little bit more concerned with how they perform. But other than that, it’s not. Not really been an issue. And I guess maybe it’s something that I just don’t care too much about. So I don’t allow it to be a big issue.

Ackerman:
Well, when you say don’t allow it to be a big issue, does it happen at DRiVE fitness?

Todd:
Currently, it doesn’t. Like I said, we’ve had a couple of people that have done it in in those scenarios previously when it has happened. I’ve approached both of them the same way where. I’ve I’ve, you know, grabbed the person after class and been like, hey, man, what’s going on? You know, asking the question of I know you cheated the reps and one one was a younger kid. Like I said, he was in his early twenties. And when I brought that up, he was just he was devastated. He was so embarrassed. And he was you know, you felt so bad about it. And it text me, I think for the next couple days was texting me and like. Making sure that I didn’t think any less of him or his character or any of the rest of that stuff. And then there was another kid, similar similar age, same deal, and he just pretended like nothing happened and he didn’t know. Just kind of played it off like it wasn’t a thing. And he was probably our most chronic offender out of the whole deal. And so then it would turn into like when he was working out, I would stand next to him and count some of his reps. And you’d like dropped his wall ball and start to pretend like he was finish. I’d be like, all right, 14 more reps. Here we go. Pick it back up and get ready. So we know that I was counting them. I wasn’t gonna let him skirt with the with the issues there before before Fern dies into his thoughts, which I think we’ll be a lot more stern than either of ours.

I would say, hey, look, imagine you’re looking at a pie chart of people that don’t hit the appropriate reps in a workout. Let’s take Fran, for example. We all know it’s 21. Fifty nine, thruster and pull ups. Someone doesn’t do that often. It becomes just very quickly misconstrued as that person shaving wraps or cheating. But if you were to look at a pie chart, what percentage would you say are people that are actually cheating versus people that lost count versus people that realize they’re going less reps, but in their mind they internally are scaling a workout? Because I do think there is a little bit of that. I know they did 18, but in their mind, they didn’t purposely cheat. They just were like, I can’t do twenty one. So I’m going to now we’ve see that. So I think it’s one of those situations that we’ve discussed in the past. We often just simply attribute it to this person’s, you know, has malice intent vs. they’re just dumb or they just were soft and wanted to do less reps.

Todd:
Yeah. And I think I think that’s a reason. I do think it happens where you have people scale down in the middle or people just go crazy in the middle of their workout and their brain dead and they don’t know how to count anymore. So I think that’s one reason why I don’t make it a big deal. And there’s no point in calling somebody out about it because you don’t know the issue and you can talk to him after the fact. And more often than not, they’ll. Let you know if they were they were like, oh, yeah, I couldn’t do all 21 of those reps, I only did 15 in the second round or whatever it was. And then you’re like, OK, cool, you weren’t cheating. So something I don’t need to be worried about. I’ve also had people that, like, literally do something that there’s no way I like. I had somebody that was doing the workout Annie they started with their fifth double unders and they literally did it like 17 seconds. I was like, dude, I’m not questioning your character, but there is absolutely no way that you did that many double unders that quickly. And he was like, no, no, I swear I did. And so after classes like, all right, do a set of 50 I’m gonna count them, your count them and then we’ll figure out where we’re at. And you did a set and ended up breaking around 40. And I told him I was like 40. And he looked at me and he was like, that was 62 or something. So he just literally didn’t know how to count double others when he was doing double unders. There was nothing that he was doing intentionally. So I think that happens as much as somebody intentionally trying to cheat so they can put their name at the top of the leaderboard.

Ackerman:
Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve all been there. You’re doing a movement and you used. I know for me it’s like when I started to count up and then for some reason in my mind, I try to count back down to trick myself, to make it seem easier or you’re doing a movement that you kind of count on one to like a Burpee, maybe count one or.

Fern:
But all of the exhausted. I’m like, go to the floor and I do one and then like forty or fifty three and I’m counting both the up and down and I’m like, I have no fucking idea what number I’m on. So I’m just going to keep going until somebody else stops.

Ackerman:
Yeah. And we don’t think for it is cheating. Right. You just that.

Todd:
No, no. I think Ferns cheating. I definitely know Ferns cheating.

Fern:
No, I am. Yeah.

Ackerman:
I’d say he’s scaling. Scaling though. So Fern, what’s your opinion now?

Fern:
I think I’ve I’ve been on both sides of this coin. One is the real ha side of the coin, which is like you’re a shitty person and I question your integrity. This is probably how you live the rest of your life. And but now I’m a little bit more in the camp of where Todd’s at. Which is it doesn’t really have any effect on me. If you want to do that, that’s fine. Like it? It doesn’t matter. However, I can’t ignore the fact that it does affect other people in the gym because generally and you guys told me in your experience in general, the offenders of this. This is usually how you can tell. Is there usually and this is kind of dumb. They’re usually the ones who are talking shit. They’re usually the ones pointing fingers. Ha ha, got you today and I’m like, no, you didn’t.

Fern:
But, you know, good. Good on you for trying. But it’s funny because like Todd said, like, if you do this long enough, you just know how long things take. So I’ve I’ve like not even watched somebody do something. I’ve like, started the clock and then turned around and this person has moved on. I literally saw them do nothing. And I had them. I said, that is literally impossible. Like, it can’t be done that fast. You just lost lot of reps. And the other thing that I think is asinine is they’re not even good at cheating. If you’re good at cheating, you’re going to cut one or two. And I know this because I played collegiate athletics. And your job is to ride the line. Right. Your job is to hand a little bit more. Don’t step out of bounds and don’t say anything. Just keep playing. But when you cut 10, 12 reps out of a set of 50. I know. I don’t have to ask you like I already know the answer because you’re so far ahead of everybody else that it’s just. Obnoxious.

Todd:
So do I. Yeah, I’ve experienced that we once were. I was running a Level 2 seminar in the day. One workout was going down and the workout had twenty one. Med ball cleans in it. That was the first movement, the first round. That was what happened. So if you think about a class full of people doing 21 med ball clean, do you think he has to break that up in the first round?

Ackerman:
No, you shouldn’t have to.

Todd:
And shouldn’t have to write. Whether you’re the height of Jason, which the cycle time is going to be quicker or the height of somebody else. That’s normal human height.

Ackerman:
Normal human height

Todd:
the cycle time is gonna be roughly the same. At best, if you’re really getting it and your cycle time is really, really quick. Over the course of twenty one reps, how many reps ahead are you going to be if you’re the best person in class? Two,.

Ackerman:
Maybe three.

Todd:
Maybe we had we had a umm and.

Fern:
A half to three seconds per rep.

Todd:
Like it at least like we had a guy finish like seven reps ahead of everybody else in the first round of twenty one reps. And nobody else broke up. Up. Broke it up. And so right then you see somebody dropped their med ball and go on to the next movement. And that alert your attention to the fact that. That doesn’t seem right. There’s no way that that possibly happened, and then you just spot check a couple of the other reps and you’re like, oh, I see what this guy is doing.

Ackerman:
Well, let me be clear. This episode wasn’t about how to better cheat at Crossfit.

Fern:
So I think the point is this is is I think a lot of cheaters don’t think people know. If you are cheating, I am here to tell you every single person in the gym knows that.

Ackerman:
Right. Like me,.

Fern:
You are seen as the cheater. When, for instance, if I if we’re doing a set of 10 deadlifts and I get to the bar before you and I’m starting rep for when you pick up the bar and you finish when I’m on Reps 7, you’ve cheated my friend. And everybody knows everybody knows that you did that. So I think that’s the point of all this is, is that it’s it’s not a secret. And if and and cheaters don’t want to be seen as cheaters, they want to be seen as winners. What I’m saying is everybody knows you’re cheating. It is not a secret. It is it is widely known in the gym that you’re the person that fucking shaves reps.

Ackerman:
Ok, so we’ve established that I think the listeners that cheat are now aware of either everyone knows or here’s how you cheat better. Don’t cheat on the first movement. Don’t take off a ton of reps, you know, one or two here, there and then don’t boast about it after and then you can cheat a little bit better. But now let’s assume the people that are listening are the ones that aren’t cheating. Both from let’s look at it from three perspectives. Let’s look at it from a pure perspective. So you’re just a member in class because we get a lot of people that just hit workouts, we get coaches. What what a coach’s responsibility is and then ultimately what the box owners responsibility is. So let’s let’s start from the ground up. How? What should other members in the class be doing?

Fern:
Other members in the class should worry about themselves. What somebody else is doing is completely irrelevant. Right. You’re competing against yourself and trying to be better at day. If you’re so wrapped up in somebody else’s score and somebody else’s reps, you got way too much energy and time on your hands because you know, you should be focused on you and figuring out how you can get better and not be so concerned about what anybody else. That’s my opinion.

Ackerman:
Fern.

Fern:
Yeah, I don’t think you should do anything and have and have confidence in this. These are the people that always get smashed in the open. So just wait your turn. Just wait for your turn. The day that somebody has to count reps for them, they suddenly have a bad day and they don’t do very well and they need to redo it during open gym by themselves, apparently. So don’t. Don’t worry about it or like they’re the ones that don’t do well in comp. There are the purse that everybody’s dragging around. You know, so don’t worry about it has nothing to do with you. Continue to train their fitness, has no bearing on your fate. Worry about you.

Ackerman:
I know I’m not going to see an agreement with both of you, but. That’s easier said than done. The person puts their score up on the whiteboard. They put it in whenever tracking software you have. And then they brag about it in a year. You’re working hard. I think we all can understand why members do care. But we agree it’s as much as you care.

Fern:
So if you wanted to do that again, let’s go down the hole like let’s just squash this thing. If you’re if you’re a member and you’re looking for some way to combat this, and that’s actually it was going to. This is one of things that we’re done as a coach. Just a different way to approach it is if that person is talking shit, just. You know, just call him out. Hey, let’s put it on video. Let’s go head to head. Let’s put on video. Let’s go head to head and let’s see who wins. We’ll get judges, the whole nine. And I I’m more often than that person will not take you up on that bet because they know that you finished 20 seconds behind them, but you did. Twenty two less reps than they did. So the math is not going to work in our favor kind.

Ackerman:
Todd What were you going to add to that?

Todd:
I was just going to say, I think that leads to something that a coach can do. I know we’ve done it in the past to where if we know somebody is in class, it’s one of those kids that’s shaven reps or people that shave and reps. And it’s a shorter workout, an easy thing to do to make sure that they don’t at least for that particular workout or to kind of get their attention as we like. It’s a shorter workout today. We’re going to do it in two heats. We’re going to partner you guys up. Partner one is gonna do the workout. My partner to counts the reps and cheers them on. And then then you guys will have a little time to to get ready to switch. And then we’re gonna do the opposite. Our partner, who’s the athlete and partner one is gonna count the reps. And so now all of a sudden when somebody else is counting your reps, you don’t have the ability to do that and you do that a couple times and see what your score really is. Maybe that brings you back to reality a little bit. And that’s an easy way for a coach to ensure that that person doesn’t cheat without having to go through the process of calling them out or tell them their cheat or do anything like that or stand there and count their reps themselves.

Fern:
So we’re saying, guys, and you can disguise that under you know, we’re getting ready for the open. You don’t have to have that. Like Todd said, you do this kind of subtly and just tell her about it. Guys, we’re getting ready for the open. You need to be acquainted with having a judge or somebody is gonna count your reps. So we’re just gonna practice here for the next three weeks and then watch watch these people slowly get in line because they have.

Ackerman:
Or Skip those days for sure. I was talking to Jeff Teacher, who we talked about prior to this, who was featured in the morning chark up. He and his wife on a box. They’ve both been a part of the love of one seminar staff. And he said he started doing that and he would surprise the members and he would see the cheaters literally show up and leave.

Fern:
Well, so the other thing I was gonna go. That’s amazing. Good thing it was gonna go back to you on the partner was, as you know, you could run to each. But the other thing you can do is if you can just one program more partner workouts, meaning and put set reps on things where it’s kind of a you go I go thing because I mean, if somebody has the balls to cheat directly in front of the person that they’re working out with, then that is a conversation about maybe having to go away. So again, you can do a lot of these things suddenly. The other thing you could do is you can ask them to videotape their workout, but do it under the guise of like I want to. I want to work on some tech. He gives you stuff, so just get the whole full review and I’ll tell you where you can make up some time or clean up some technique without having to say, like, I want to count your reps, because if it does turn out that way, you look like, hey, I’m looking at this, we can clean these things up. But also it looks like your.

Todd:
We can clean up the fact you only did have the reps.

Fern:
Counting. Yeah. To include your counting, we can clean that up too. But that’s just another way to try to approach it without going head on and say and questioning somebodies character because again there does there does exist that scenario where they are not doing it maliciously, they’re just not paying attention.

Ackerman:
Ok, so let’s. I think we’ve really established some good kind of boundaries, members. Don’t lose your mind about it. And don’t say anything bad. You know, you don’t want to be the cause of drama. Bring it to the coach. You’ve given some solutions for the coach. I think it’s broader for the box owner, which we should get to next. But let’s let’s take a moment. And we we’ve established not everyone does it maliciously, but let’s dive into the brain of someone that’s doing it maliciously. Why do they do this? What’s going on in someone’s head? And if you’re a rep shaver and you need an intervention, we will have you on next week’s episode to dive deeper into this. I will. Know I’ll grab my degree. It’s right up there. My master’s degree in psychology.

Todd:
I feel like I feel like you’re asking this question directly to yourself. Why don’t you tell us why you so you can finally beat me in a workout or in the open for a year or so that you only have to do twenty two of those back squats that you’ve been talking trash about and you can count it towards 50? Is that what you want?

Ackerman:
I did a big Set back squats maybe last week just to kind of test it. As I.

Fern:
Was that big set 7?

Ackerman:
I was doing I think I did 15, at 185

Todd:
at 135?

Ackerman:
No one eighty five. Just to move up

Fern:
How’d it go?

Ackerman:
I was like, fuck, this is gonna be really hard. I wasn’t like in the same mindset that I’m going to be.

Todd:
Oh, yeah, yeah. You’re so mentally tough.

Fern:
Game day is different. Game day is different. I could jump higher on game day,.

Ackerman:
But let’s it. Let’s take a moment and think about it. You know, because because here’s how I’ve always approach it as the as whether it’s a member coach or box owner because I’ve really seen it from all different angles now. And I tell people that if someone’s cheating, they’ve got some serious shit going on in their life. And this is that important to them.

Todd:
Yeah. I agree, man. If your score is in the gym matter, we’ve got issues like that. There’s bigger issues than that. I completely agree. We say the same thing in our place. It’s like the more that our workouts and our scores and our PR or any of that kind of stuff where you shake out on the ladder, leaderboard matters. The bigger the something else is going on. It’s way, way bigger than simply what what’s happening in the gym. That’s for sure.

Fern:
That’s a tough one, though, Jay. It’s a good point, though, because that that involves me. To put my feelings aside about it and just look at this person, this person’s clearly got something going on, we’re like. And granted, we do want this to be the best hour of the day. And we do want this to be the highlight of what they have going on. But if this is what they hang their persona on. That’s a problem. And if their persona is totally predicated on them winning every single workout they’re doing at the expense of throwing all integrity out the window again. I think you’re right. There are bigger issues in there. I think there are ways you can appeal to that athlete to slowly bring in the line without without making it confrontational. Yeah.

Ackerman:
And I think go a head Todd

Todd:
It goes it goes back to what do you what do you celebrate and emphasize inside the walls of your gym? If like the leader on the on the scoreboard or on the whiteboard is the person that is celebrated every day, well, then there’s gonna be people that want that recognition. If it’s, hey, this person moved with the most quality movement, I’m super stoked on that. Or, hey, this is the person that finally did pull up. It just depends on what you emphasize and what you are celebrating with inside the walls of the gym. I’ve seen people come from other gyms that that come in and they’ve got this, I think, nervousness and stress and anxiety about how they perform. And then they’re around our gym for a little while and realize that the leader board is the least important thing in there. Yeah. We want you to do better, but nobody’s really worried about where you shake out. And I think it helps to lessen some of that anxiety just because we celebrate things like the quality of your movement and the progress that you’re making overall, not where you rank her stack up against everybody else.

Ackerman:
Yeah. And I’m just throwing it out there, you know? We have listeners that have brought up this topic up to us, asked us to discuss it. And only with the three of us aren’t always the most sympathetic or empathetic people on the planet. But I think deep down we are. And it’s okay. Just take a step back and realize if someone is cheating, they’ve got some shit going on. I usually eat them. And whether they whether it’s the parents or not, they’re probably unhappy outside of. You know, this is where they get their win and their win comes from cheating. So might not. Be the best move, don’t just bash them. That’s what I’m saying.

Todd:
Agree

Fern:
Agreed. So. So let’s go down that road. At what point? I’m asking both of you the question. At what point? And I understand there’s no hard line here. But at what point do you decide to intervene as the box? At what point is it now your responsibility? To inject yourself into that situation in whatever form you deem necessary, whether it’s middle class or a sit down.

Ackerman:
I’ll tell you when I’ve done it in the past. And it’s two things to me. It’s when it’s kind of like. A cancer in your box. Right. As it starts to spread. If it’s if it’s impacting people because my mentality has there’s I’ve had numerous scenarios back in the day where there’s cheat, I could think of probably five really big ones. Then continued and then a lot of it was because I didn’t care. I would always take that approach of if someone’s cheating. I really don’t care. Now. I have to be aware that I’m still trying to build a community and I have hundreds of other people and whether or not I care. They do. So when it was you know, when it was becoming something that spread and more importantly, when I say spread, what I realize this person that’s cheating, although he’s the culprit, he’s going to wind up getting what she was. Mostly men, though. Let’s be honest. It was what they are going to whine. I’m getting really hurt because everybody is talking about them and they’re gonna find out.

Fern:
Yeah,.

Ackerman:
I would rather be the one that comes in. Hey, just so you know, there’s people chatting, you know, whether or not I believe them or not, but there’s chatter of this. So you might want to be aware of it. What do you think Todd?

Todd:
Yeah, I was going to say I think that the moment to step in is when you are 100 percent confident that it’s happening. So you spot check the reps, not just in one class and one workout, but you do it repeatedly for a couple of weeks. And there is a consistency in, you know, them shaving a large number of reps. Then it’s like, all right. So this is not just a one off thing where you lost count or you just don’t know how to count this movement very well. This is something that you’re doing intentionally. So let me check in with you and see what’s going on. Like I said, we you know, I’ve gotten to that point and grabbed him outside of the class and had a conversation with him to see what’s going on. So, you know, I think the time to step in is once you are 100 percent sure that that is truly the case and then try to figure out what’s the root of what’s going on.

Ackerman:
And that’s typically the box owner’s responsibility. But you’ve brought up a couple of other things, Todd, that we should dive into from the box on a perspective. You’ve mentioned the emphasis a few times. So is that a time and a place to eliminate our exit and eliminate waits to eliminate the whiteboard? Or is that so extreme to compensate from one person that’s cheating?

Todd:
I don’t think you eliminate the whiteboard, but I mean, we’ve had this discussion before is like at our gym, we don’t have weights listed on the board. We devalue RX. It’s not really a thing because we’re not concerned with that. You know, the the the R X or the the goal is the intended stimulus. And so we continue to do that. And I think. There’s probably also a reason it doesn’t happen a ton at our gym is that like everybody’s constantly getting scaled. Like if it’s a high volume workout, like very few people are doing all the reps anyways because we’re giving them the proper number that’s going to help them accomplish that, the stimulus of the workout anyways. And so over the course of a class of 12, 15 athletes, I mean, 10 of the 15 are doing something slightly different anyways. So once again, it doesn’t really matter. We’re not comparing apples to apples anyways. So I think that helps to eliminate people from feeling like they have to cheat to not finish last or to be towards the top of the leaderboard. You can still coach one of the best times. If you’re scaled appropriately and that’s the way it should work as to where everybody is competing for the best time and if they’re scaled appropriately, that competition is on par. Just because somebody did less reps or less weight, I still want to try to beat them and that’s going to elicit some intensity and all finishing in a similar time. Then it just means that we’re scaled appropriately anyways.

Ackerman:
Fern, would you make any changes to compensate for that?

Fern:
I think there’s probably a way to do two to do two things at once. Meaning I can verify that this is actually happening and it’s a consistent behavior and potentially getting them in line with some kind of strategic things that you do within your class. One of the things we mentioned in previous episode was was changing what our RX, Means with regard to checking that box so you can just check the stimulus, right. Not the rounds or reps or weight, right. So I talked about like we’re gonna do that again in November. So if you haven’t heard that episode about what is RX, go back and listen to it. But when we’ve done that, when we changed it where it wasn’t a specific rep count, it wasn’t a specific loading. The people that gripe to the most generally fell in that bucket. They were the ones that were a little iffy on their counting. If you will, because now now it’s just kind of a free for all. And they can and everybody can check that box. So it going back to what Todd said. I’m not gonna say it devalues it, but changes the mindset with regard to how I do that. And it makes it much harder for you to cheat to the point where people care because about 15 people in a class, they could all do 15 different things. And now nobody cares about what you got. Like, they’re just like, okay, this is good for you. The other thing you could do if you really wanted to verify this and force them is you can change the programming a little bit and you can use things like lower rep counts or things like calories on the assault bike, the rower, the skier, where nobody’s cheating on those because I just happened to walk by. Look at the screen and note that it says 10 when it was supposed to be twelve. And I just ask you a question. It’s also one of those things where it’s much easier for you to count without being super obvious about counting, because we all know that like basically past 10. It’s really hard for you to count somebodies reps without being super obvious about it. But if I can program things that are a lower rep count where it’s really obvious that you only did three of the five reps to everybody in the room, you’re far less likely to do that. People start to shave those numbers when it goes 15, 20, 25 because nobody’s watching them do. Those reps were the only ones that know that because I’ve seen so many people do that over the years that I know how long it takes you to do 50 ball cleans. And it’s not thirty five seconds. So,.

Ackerman:
Yeah, I think something. Cheaters aren’t aware of with coaches of our experience. I know that you guys. But I’ll accidentally just be counting.

Fern:
Not even looking at.

Ackerman:
Even looking. I just I’ll be talking to someone and I’ll be I’ll still be counting someone’s reps. Just from the years I think of personal training and then also having that experience. Like you said, we don’t necessarily need to count twenty one pull ups because we know if you’re hopping on that bar in ten seconds, you didn’t do 21 pull up. Right. Todd. Todd gave a little story for you. Have a good cheating story that you’d like to share.

Fern:
Not necessarily a good story. I just. It’s one of those things where it always it always gets exposed when it comes to the open. Every year those people don’t do as well as they’ve been doing consistently on the leader and your gym every year. They were at the top and now they’re like middle or bottom because they’re not used to doing the right volume, hitting the appropriate intensity. And it comes out in the wash and they’re super bummed after the open or now the open is stupid, right? Because they don’t do very well. You know, so yeah, but again, I’ve been back and forth on that, I have had to pull people aside. I have told people to leave. I’ve had competitive athletes who are who are really fit. And it didn’t even make any sense. For them to cheat would come in and cheat because they just wanted to be, you know, the big dog in the gym. And I would. Those are people that really rub me the wrong way. And this is probably the more aggressive Fern or Vern however you want to wear. I would just count the reps out loud because you came into my gym and just immediately tried to piss in my face. Right. It’s just like you came in. You. You were grossly mis counting and then telling everybody how great you are. At which point. Now I have to come in and squash that, because now I’m protecting the community. You’re trying to come in from the outside. If this is somebody who’s been with you for a while, I think that warrants a little bit softer approach.

Ackerman:
Yeah, I think you know, I think like you’ve said, it’s typically I had numerous athletes and when they were cheating, the open would come around and they were hurt all of a sudden. It was one of those scenarios, but I think one thing we have now is. And as a boxer, it’s important to address if it’s impacting the entire the entire community, but you can handle it in a in a safe manner.

Fern:
I do have a story now that you bring it up here. This is that same one. I had had a pretty competitive athlete come in my gym. This is probably maybe two, two years ago and consistently cheating. I mean, we really obviously and again, it was stupid because he didn’t do as crazy fit. And so I watched it. I watched it and watched it. And it was getting to the point where it was really obnoxious. So like in one workout, it was a good 20 minute amrap. I think I called him out like a dozen times for the wrong rep count, Never came back.

Ackerman:
Just left,.

Fern:
Just left. Literally never walked in the door again and everybody was just fine with that.

Ackerman:
Wow, like like we’ve said, if someone’s cheating. I’ve always said they they’ve got far deeper issues than I can handle. And I can tell you there won’t be any cheating when I had 50 squat in a couple of weeks.

Todd:
Because it’s not going to happen.

Ackerman:
Most because Todd’s gonna be counting the reps very loudly, I’m sure.

Todd:
I’m gonna be crying just with laughter falling to the ground.

Ackerman:
Well, I’m excited about that. I think I think we’ve summed it up. I know it’s one of those areas that people kind of want maybe a hard and fast rule, but there isn’t one there. There really isn’t one when it comes to Rep Shavers other than. Doing your best to to not advance the situation.

Todd:
Yeah, nobody wins if it turns into a big deal, if you call them out in front of the rest of class or something like that. That’s just not a good experience for anybody.

Ackerman:
Nailed it. All right, guys, we’ve wrapped up a controversial topic in Rep. Shavers and if you guys if anyone listening has feedback for us, hit us up and we’ll be happy to address it in next week’s episode. Cool.

Fern:
See you.

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